Author Topic: Salt tolerant varieties  (Read 1233 times)

Ocimum

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: 12
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #15 on: 2019-04-09, 07:03:14 AM »
Maybe something cheaper than reverse osmosis is the distillation in a basin like Seymour did.

See the picture (quickly found on a search)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-a-7r-_KF46c/TYxih0o5_RI/AAAAAAAAAkc/SsxMPdrb66E/s1600/Solar+Still0001.jpg

Best

Diane Whitehead

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #16 on: 2019-04-09, 10:03:13 AM »
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Walt

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #17 on: 2019-04-11, 07:15:43 PM »
There are 2 species of sunflower that are quite salt tolerant.  Can't think of their names right now.  It's been over 30 years since I was a sunflower breeder.  And I wasn't working on salt tolerance.

Ferdzy

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #18 on: 2019-04-15, 07:27:28 AM »
Salsola soda, or agretti, is another one for the list.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsola_soda

Edited to add: Also the related Okahijiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsola_komarovii
« Last Edit: 2019-04-15, 07:39:19 AM by Ferdzy »

gmuller

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: 6
  • Bendigo, Australia. 515mm rain - if we are lucky
    • View Profile
    • Useful Seeds
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #19 on: 2019-05-14, 10:51:13 PM »
Hi Gregg,
Here's a more thorough review of salinity in peas, however it is restricted to sativum.
It's only for those that like to wade through a thesis. Accessions covered are landraces and local Oz field peas for the most part.
https://minerva-access.unimelb.edu.au/bitstream/handle/11343/38605/307726_PHD%20Thesis%20Antonio%20Leonforte.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

I'll get you the fulvum data soon, both last years and this years - as we have a second accession getting the same treatment at the moment.
Did you consider maybe as an aside partial desal with reverse osmosis? Not the cheapest option - but if you arent trying to remove all the salt it might be viable. Just a thought.
Thanks Steve, I'll have a read.
I have considered desal, since the new house has a 4.5kW PV array, but the problem is disposing of the hypersaline water you create - can't pump it back in to the aquifer, can't discharge to the ground or the waterways, and not enough room for an evaporation basin...
Thanks everyone else for the suggestions, most helpful.
g

naiku

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #20 on: 2019-05-29, 11:04:18 PM »
I've read that both S. galapagense and S. cheesmanieae have salt tolerance (but that only S. galapagense has whitefly resistance).

I do tend to think that both tomatoes in general and watermelon already tolerate salt a lot better than many crops, though. (As Ferdzy already referenced, for tomatoes.)

Have you heard about magnetizing water? Apparently, they magnetize water to change the salt in the water so that it's somehow better for plants. You might try just magnetizing your soil and see what happens. Maybe get a big, a strong magnetic sweeper (maybe an electromagnet) and hover it over your soil. I wonder if that would help. I'm tempted to put a magnet on the hose while I water this year, and see what happens. The studies I've read about sound like they had great results.
« Last Edit: 2019-05-30, 03:01:12 AM by naiku »

Steve1

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #21 on: 2019-06-10, 07:07:51 AM »
Add Jerusalem Artichoke (Hellianthus tuberosus) to that list. Used in China for medicinal and other uses. Can be grown with 25-50% seawater dilution. I have been told that pickling the roots is a tasty way to eat it. 

Cheers
Steve


naiku

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #22 on: 2019-06-12, 02:06:52 AM »
I have a hunch that our soil with Jerusalem artichokes in it may be a mite salty, and they're flourishing. (They did taste salty, too, come to think of it.) I could be wrong about the soil. We have a hard time growing cucumbers in that soil. I also tried Rattlesnake pole beans there, which didn't thrive. Alliums struggle there if it's sunny and dry, but if it's cloudy and rainy, they do well, or if the weeds shade them a certain amount they grow taller and greener. While we're talking about this, I noticed that our strawberries taste kind of salty. If it's really salt I'm tasting, it seems like they must be good at accumulating it.

I wonder if Jerusalem artichokes would be helpful at removing salt from soils.

Jerusalem artichokes could in theory be great for lacto-fermented pickles, since they're high in inulin (which is food for bacteria). I don't know what biproducts would be produced from lactic acid bacteria using inulin, though, whether lactic acid or other stuff. Anyway, I'm hoping that fermenting them uses up the inulin to make them give you less gas. On the other hand, they'd be pickled, with salt (so, I'd probably eat a conservative amount anyway).

I thought our Jerusalem artichokes were great just baked plain (skins, too). What I'd love to do is blend them up with chile sauce and stuff to lacto-ferment, to help kickstart the process, with the inulin. You could cook it first and add bacteria later in that case, even (if you wanted things that come from cooking).

I used a magnetic sweeper on our ground by our driveway (which is bound to be salty, due to salting the driveway and shoveling snow onto that ground from the driveway). I don't know if anything we're growing there is salt intolerant, though. We're growing West India burr gherkins, wonderberries, three species of squash, an Early Girl F1 tomato, a Kikinda Competition Strain gourd, and Morelle De Balbis there. I'd be surprised if wonderberries weren't salt-tolerant. They're super easy to grow everywhere I've tried them (including by the Jerusalem artichokes). Chichiquelite, on the other hand, did not grow very well next to the Jerusalem artichokes, and Otricoli Orange berries struggled a certain amount, but not as much as Chichiquelite (which got maybe three inches tall).

I have a feeling that acclimatization through seed-saving can play a big role with salt-tolerance in tomatoes.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-12, 03:00:02 AM by naiku »

Doro

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: 15
  • Värmland, Sweden
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #23 on: 2019-06-12, 03:10:28 AM »
I'm growing Jerusalem artichokes along the side of a path that gets a fair amount of salt sand during winter. They don't mind at all, they must be very salt tolerant.

My husband is very sensitive to inulin and I lacto fermented them for that reason. They still give him bad cramps, for him that didn't work at all.
The fermenting process is quick and easy though. Imo they taste great that way and a big jar does not last long for me, but I can even eat them raw without any trouble.

The stems and leafs are excellent rabbit food by the way. Fresh as well as dried. My angoras, who are notoriously picky eaters, love them!

naiku

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #24 on: 2019-06-12, 04:39:41 AM »
@Doro

Thanks for sharing that.

I've been wondering how they'd taste lacto-fermented for a while now. I wonder if a longer fermentation period would help to reduce the gas. Did the pickles produce a lot of CO2 during fermentation? Did they get extra sour?

Baked, to me, they tasted like already salted and buttered soft and sticky baked potatoes mixed with seafood (they were so good that I ate a lot of them even though I knew they would probably give me gas—and they did; I survived, but I should have been more careful, in case of an allergy or intolerance). I haven't tried them raw (because last year they weren't as dense and I worried neighborhood cats may have pooped in the soil). This year, I don't think there's any way a cat would want to try penetrating them.

I'm glad to know that rabbits can love the leaves.

Now I just wonder if Jerusalem artichokes would handle shallow soil that dries out quickly on top of caliche. (Not for my garden, but for someone else's.)

Doro

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: 15
  • Värmland, Sweden
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #25 on: 2019-06-12, 09:01:53 AM »
The fermentation process starts very quick and is quite bubbly in the beginning, but slows down fast too. It didn't get overly sour.
I liked them best after four weeks, but my kitchen isn't a warm place so they will be ready quicker for most others. None of the ferments got older than 6 months, they are all eaten too quickly hahaha so I don't know how long they actually keep.
The Jerusalem Artichokes I have develop a grey muddy colour when fermented. Which is not a pleasing look, but a little turmeric brightens them up and the taste goes along well with them. I also liked them in mixed batches with carrots or other veg. The only thing which was not good was a mix with cabbage, but I'm picky with how sauerkraut should taste.

I have sand soil which dries out quickly, but I never water them. They get some chicken manure every third year, no extra compost or mulch. The plants still reach a size of 2,50m to 3m and look happy all summer. It's a mystery to me how they do that.
I gave away some roots to friends and they seem to thrive  everywhere. One friend has a house in a field of rocks and gravel with very little actual soil and they grow fine. Another friend has clay in the garden, living at the side of a bog and they grow fine. Only one friend had trouble growing them and that was just because the dogs dug them up constantly. I'd say any kind of dirt is fine, as long as they do not get uprooted during the growing season ;D

I heard that it's good to start with eating small amounts each harvest season and increase slowly, so the bacteria in the digestive system can get used to it. But that never worked for my husband, he is not getting used to them no matter what he tried. I seem to have plenty enough of the right bacteria in my digestive system to process them, even without training. The first years I grew them I was totally unaware of the gas issue. Until I had friends over for dinner... Jerusalem Artichoke soup as a starter had interesting effects on that evening.

Gustav H. L.

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 1
  • Vestjylland, Denmark
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #26 on: 2019-06-13, 02:20:13 AM »
Chard and beets have at least been mentioned already, but I think it might be worth bringing them up again. Their wild ancestor grows directly on the beaches in a few places around here, so even if modern highly domesticated cultivars do poorly, going back to slightly more primitive stock might work. The only other crop wild relatives that are commercially cultivated to any extent that grow in similar vicinity to the sea around here are a kind of rosehips and sea-buckthorn, neither of which really fit the "standard temperate vegetable" criterium.

As for dealing with the inulin in Jerusalem artichokes, many Pacific Northwest Native Americans cooked camas, which is very high in inulin, in large earth ovens under moist conditions for 12-72 hours and then dried it for storage, which supposedly hydrolyses much of the inulin into digestible sugars, but I haven't heard of anyone trying it with chokes. The Kwiáht center for historical ecology of the Salish Sea give this recipe cooking camas in more modest portions in a modern slow cooker. I don't own a slow-cooker myself so I haven't tried it, but I imagine that it would likely be applicable to the chokes as well, perhaps with an adjustment of the cooking time.
To diffuse the heat and avoid overcooking the bulbs on the edge, line the slow cooker well with washed thimbleberry leaves, soaked corn husks, or crumpled parchment paper. Add around a cup of water (depending on the size of your slow cooker—the water should come up to the top of the leaves). Make a large well in the middle and line with two sheets of parchment paper crossed over one another. Fill this well with cleaned bulbs; a full pot will cook more evenly. Fold the edges of the parchment paper over the bulbs and put on the lid. Set the cooker on low, and allow to cook for 48 hours, adding water as needed (check approximately every 12 hours). After 24 hours the bulbs will begin to take on an ivory color, and after 48 hours they will be dark brown and very soft. At this point they can be used in any of the following recipes, or frozen, or dried for storage. Fresh cooked bulbs are quite perishable will only keep for a few days in thefridge.

Steve1

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #27 on: 2019-06-13, 05:11:13 AM »
Sea kale?? Seems obvious, but might be ripe for a project. Perennial sea kale too. There is a supplier in Aus.
I also recently came across an ebay seller in Queensland with more pumpkin/squash than I could poke a stick at. Lots of indigenous US Indian and Mexican squash. My gut feeling is that there is lots of drought tolerant genetics there. As saline tolerance overlaps physiology wise that might be somewhere to look. Some of those lines are quite short season too.
PM me if you're interested.

I think I'm going to try the kales too.

Cheers
Steve



naiku

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #28 on: 2019-06-13, 03:33:58 PM »
@Doro

Awesome. I'll have to give some Jerusalem artichokes to people with caliche and see what happens. They might need to prune them to help them branch out and get bushier to resist the wind, though (they can get a lot of serious wind in some desert areas). I'm curious how they'd do with pruning.

Thanks for explaining the fermentation in more depth! That's very helpful.

@Steve1

Interesting you mention salt tolerance in connection with drought tolerance. Using a little salt is one way to trick an indoor pepper into thinking it has a more constant supply of water (to avoid problems with over-sensitivity to inconsistent watering). Too much salt can make the roots rot, though. It just takes a little. The plants have more insect and disease tolerance with a little salt, too. I wonder if baking soda would work better than sodium chloride. Well, it might be too alkaline on top of the sodium.

Well, if salt and drought tolerance are connected, then I'm guessing the Sausage tomato might have above-average salt tolerance. It was very drought-tolerant last year. I'm growing about 17 Sausage plants, this year. I only grew one last year.

naiku

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Salt tolerant varieties
« Reply #29 on: 2019-06-13, 03:38:31 PM »
Chard and beets have at least been mentioned already, but I think it might be worth bringing them up again. Their wild ancestor grows directly on the beaches in a few places around here, so even if modern highly domesticated cultivars do poorly, going back to slightly more primitive stock might work. The only other crop wild relatives that are commercially cultivated to any extent that grow in similar vicinity to the sea around here are a kind of rosehips and sea-buckthorn, neither of which really fit the "standard temperate vegetable" criterium.

As for dealing with the inulin in Jerusalem artichokes, many Pacific Northwest Native Americans cooked camas, which is very high in inulin, in large earth ovens under moist conditions for 12-72 hours and then dried it for storage, which supposedly hydrolyses much of the inulin into digestible sugars, but I haven't heard of anyone trying it with chokes. The Kwiáht center for historical ecology of the Salish Sea give this recipe cooking camas in more modest portions in a modern slow cooker. I don't own a slow-cooker myself so I haven't tried it, but I imagine that it would likely be applicable to the chokes as well, perhaps with an adjustment of the cooking time.

Thanks for the recipe.

Lambsquarter is in the same family as beets. It flourishes *everywhere* on our property (as a weed; so, granted it's well-acclimated). Same for our wild amaranth.

Other weeds that are fine everywhere seem to include mallow, morning glory, creeping Charlie, prickly lettuce and others.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-13, 03:46:07 PM by naiku »