Author Topic: TPS 2019  (Read 2764 times)

reed

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #15 on: 2019-04-13, 04:26:42 AM »
I broke down and planted some TPS the other day. I was cleaning out paths and pilling the weeds/soil up to rot and decided to hollow out the middle, throw in some compost and just direct seed. Put in about 25 of my White Superior, all 15 or so of a little blue one. No idea of what kind the blue one is, it came from Joseph's bountiful mix and only other one that has made seeds for me. For good measure I added some from Oxbow farm whose tag said they produce berries in hot weather.

The whole thing is about 7 feet long and three feet wide, assuming they come up I'll thin out to ten or so plants and see what they do. I'm leaving the decision whether or not to keep growing TPS in coming seasons up to these seeds.

Like I said potatoes are getting harder and harder to grow here, plus I don't have good storage to overwinter tubers and I don't like digging potatoes. All that said I would not all be opposed to a line that could be grown as a true seed annual, even if they did only produce small tubers. Wonder if that is even remotely possible.


« Last Edit: 2019-04-13, 04:32:36 AM by reed »

Ferdzy

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #16 on: 2019-04-13, 12:04:42 PM »
Is a true seed-grown annual potato possible?

It might be. We have some seeds that were given to us by Duane Falk, a breeder who used to work at U of Guelph. They were from potatoes he acquired in Latvia. They produced - literally - buckets of seed balls and he was handing them out by the handful to people who attended a workshop he had.

Workshop write-up here: https://seasonalontariofood.blogspot.com/2015/10/an-organic-potato-seed-production-and.html

We've grown out a few of those seeds each year for a couple of years now. It seems like in each batch of, say, about 100 seeds that we plant, we get 2 or 3 that grow so prodigiously that the yield is as good a planting a clone piece of an established variety or better. So far, the bad news is that the flavour seems to range between ho-hum and terrible. I believe we do have tubers from one that was both prolific and decent tasting. We plan to continue to sow seed from this source and keep the most productive and flavourful, and then let them cross again - the ultimate result may very well be consistenly good and productive potatoes that can be grown directly from seed. Or not; who knows. But given their behaviour thus far it doesn't seem like that crazy an idea.

You can see some of our seed-grown potatoes in this post here: https://seasonalontariofood.blogspot.com/2018/10/crazy-about-potato-seedlings.html

triffid

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #17 on: 2019-04-16, 04:02:27 AM »
Bought some seeds from Germany and sowed them yesterday - my first foray into the world of TPS. Their ancestry is a mystery, and I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm excited.

Regarding true seed-grown annuals, this Dutch company is marketing a variety of F1 seed they claim crops in one season http://www.bejo.com/magazine/bejo-introduces-its-first-true-potato-seed-variety

reed

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #18 on: 2019-04-16, 09:11:07 AM »
I'm surprised that the idea of potatoes as a seed grown annul has real possibility, and delighted. I'm also surprised to see a lot of my seeds which I planted on the 10th, just six days ago are sprouted. If nothing else I'v discovered that direct seeding works. Just one so far of the blue ones has sprouted and none yet of the heat tolerant but enough of the white superior they will have to be thinned. 

I'm actually a little conflicted on how I want it to turn out. From what I understand the white superior seeds were a bit of an anomaly and although other white superior plants bloomed that year, they all came from two berries on just one plant. On the one hand keeping them pure, for now at least, has it's plus side but for diversity it might be best if they get crossed. If there is any potential for turning into a seed grown line I guess crossing is best but what ever they do is up the them I reckon. I also planted a big row of white superior seed tubers so maybe they they will all bloom together.
« Last Edit: 2019-04-16, 09:13:14 AM by reed »

Doro

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #19 on: 2019-04-16, 11:22:30 AM »
I think a true seed annual line is totally possible. Most TPS plants make a decent crop in their first year. Some even make a really good crop in the same range as tuber grown plants. So why not :)
Direct seeding is something I would have difficulties with, just because my soil is sprouting a sea of lambsquarter and my short season. But if you don't have terrible amounts of fast growing weeds and a long growing season, direct seeding should be no problem.

I'm still not done with choosing keepers and repotting. But there is still old snow in the garden, so no real hurry. Probably another month until they can be planted out. Mid May seems realistic for last night frosts, spring is late this year.

reed

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #20 on: 2019-04-17, 04:36:21 AM »
The only other time I grew TPS it was a diverse mix. I had a lot of small potatoes, several in range of about quarter sized and lots of smaller. Some made a lot of them so despite being small you could still get a meal or two from a hill. There were a few the size of chicken eggs. Most all of them tasted good and most bloomed but only the one that made the little blue potatoes made any seeds and it was just one berry's worth.

All mine are up now, not all the seeds have sprouted  but enough of all three kinds to more than fill out the little plot. It's small enough I can easily cover it if we get a late freeze and easy to keep watered when it gets hot.

I guess if they are willing, I'll have a new breeding project.

bill

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #21 on: 2019-04-18, 02:32:33 PM »
It is hard to get a useful yield when direct seeding and the mortality rate is high.  Seedling development is so slow that the plants often don't have a chance to produce before the end of the season.  Obviously, this depends on climate.  I think it is pretty easy to work on a two year schedule though.  You could grow seedlings in a bed, perhaps with some protection, and then use the small tubers for seed the following year.  Those plants would produce normally.  Many people grow in pots the first year to get minitubers.

Ferdzy

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #22 on: 2019-04-18, 02:42:26 PM »
It occurs to me that one of the barriers to a seed-grown potato, at least here in Canada, is legal. As I described in my first blog post, after the Lenape potato killed a number of people through its high level of glycoalkaloids all potatoes must be registered in order to be commercially sold, and that involves paying $750 (last figure I heard, don't know if still accurate) for the testing.

bill

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #23 on: 2019-04-18, 02:50:04 PM »
Nobody was killed by Lenape.  A breeder who overindulged got a bit sick.  They sent it off for a TGA count and it came back at about three times the safety limit (65 mg/100g).  You would still have to eat a huge amount at that concentration to die.

It seems silly to test every variety.  It is pretty rare for domesticated potatoes to come out bitter.  Lenape was a cross that included the wild species S. chacoense, which typically has very high TGA.

reed

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #24 on: 2019-04-18, 06:09:11 PM »
It is hard to get a useful yield when direct seeding and the mortality rate is high.  Seedling development is so slow that the plants often don't have a chance to produce before the end of the season.  Obviously, this depends on climate.  I think it is pretty easy to work on a two year schedule though.  You could grow seedlings in a bed, perhaps with some protection, and then use the small tubers for seed the following year.  Those plants would produce normally.  Many people grow in pots the first year to get minitubers.
I think my biggest problem will likely be heat and drought. I'v already watered them a couple times and if we don't get tonight's predicted rain will do so again tomorrow. I'm sure there is plenty of moisture deep in the ground but those tiny seedlings don't have enough roots to find it yet and the sun and wind are really drying the surface up. The plants don't even have any true leaves yet. I'm thinking if I can nurse them trough till they get better established and keep em mulched good later in the season, they might just make a little bit of something.

Is TGA the same thing that gives that awful taste if a potato skin has been exposed to light and turns green?

Ferdzy

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #25 on: 2019-04-18, 06:28:55 PM »
Bill; Duane Falk seemed to think that some people had died from eating it; old people in a nursing home that excess potatoes were donated to. It's true that the increased death-rate while they were being served was likely not absolutely linkable to it. But whether it killed people or just made Gary Johnston sick doesn't change the fact that in Canada, it is legally required to register new potato varieties if you are going to sell them.

Here's a page about doing so. Appendix V about half way down deals with potatoes.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/plants/variety-registration/registration-procedures/guidance-document/eng/1411564219182/1411564268800?chap=0#s20c3

Reed; I assume TGA is an abbreviation for glycoalkaloids, in which case yes.

We've had the best success by starting our seeds in pots in the spring, transplanting them at the earliest opportunity, and then we water them quite a lot because our soil is so sandy and dries out so fast.

esoteric_agriculture

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #26 on: 2019-04-18, 06:47:41 PM »
TPS seedlings planted last night. 200 seedlings in the ground. No temperature forecast lower than 44 for any extended forecast I’ve seen here, so I decided to plant. Ground was dry enough for good planting, 1-2 inches of rain forecast here tomorrow night, ideal situation. A hard or killing freeze is at this point extremely unlikely here, light freeze maybe, but the plants will recover from that. Plants were perfect stage to transplant, rooted but not root bound. Maybe 2 plants had any visible microtubers, rest only fibrous roots or stolons. My experience in this climate is that potatoes need planted as early as possible so they can grow and establish before hot dry weather and potato eating pests show up.
Very deep mildly acidic clay loam with abundant sandstone and quartzite gravel and stones. Very high water table, Border of Koppen climate Oceanic and Humid Subtropical, USDA Zone 6b, very windy frost pocket valley at the foot of a lonely mountain, historic dairy and orchard county.

bill

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #27 on: 2019-04-18, 07:01:15 PM »
Is TGA the same thing that gives that awful taste if a potato skin has been exposed to light and turns green?

Yes, TGA = total glycoalkaloids.  You might find this helpful:
https://www.cultivariable.com/potato-glycoalkaloid-toxicity/

bill

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #28 on: 2019-04-18, 07:04:49 PM »
Bill; Duane Falk seemed to think that some people had died from eating it; old people in a nursing home that excess potatoes were donated to. It's true that the increased death-rate while they were being served was likely not absolutely linkable to it.

That's interesting.  I did quite a bit of research a couple years back for my glycoalkaloid article and found basically no published accounts of glycoalkaloid poisoning in modern times from eating tubers (there are a few associated with eating other parts of the plant).  It does seem that nursing home patients might be more vulnerable, so that makes some sense.  They must have kept it pretty quiet if so, but the 1970s was a different time.

bill

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Re: TPS 2019
« Reply #29 on: 2019-04-18, 07:12:35 PM »
Here's a page about doing so. Appendix V about half way down deals with potatoes.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/plants/variety-registration/registration-procedures/guidance-document/eng/1411564219182/1411564268800?chap=0#s20c3

It looks like there is an exception for "Home Garden Varieties" that are grown on less than 1 hectare.  That ought to accommodate most small breeding.