Author Topic: General Pea Information.  (Read 631 times)

B. Copping

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General Pea Information.
« on: 2019-02-11, 01:11:11 PM »
A thread for general information about peas (not cultivar specific)
So please post your gems here. :)
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PEAS
                        HEIGHT        SPACING          READY(to eat)
                        -Supports     Plant  Row

Dwarf               Up to 2’       2-3”   18-24”    60 days
(Early)                -Not usually

Half-dwarf        2’ to 4’       (3”)    30-36”    70 days
(Mid-season)       -Optional

Tall                   4’ to 6+’     3-4”    48”         80 days
(Late)                 -Recommended


25 Vegetables Anyone Can Grow
Ann Roe Robbins (1942)
Dover Edition: ISBN 0-486-23029-5
Pages 137-9


Now I’ll have to figure out which genes belong to which type...
(Mini rant: Anadale Mono is not a monospaced font...)

Andrew Barney

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #1 on: 2019-02-11, 06:33:28 PM »
There are also some varieties that are much shorter than dwarf. I once saw a good reference refer to them as "Extra Dwarf". Tom Thumb and Mighty Midget are the two I know of. They can range from 3-7" tall. I think 6" is probably typical, but I can only find info from one year.

Mighty Midget: First to flower on May 23rd. First variety to flower. 4" tall (I think this was a dry year). (If I remember from last year I got 6-7" tall). Extra Early.

Tom Thumb: 2.5" tall (i think this was from a dry year).

Andrew Barney

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #2 on: 2019-02-17, 10:08:31 PM »
I like this idea. Awhile back i started a project called "The Pea Database Collaboration Project" on the old Alan Bishop Homegrown Goodness forum (and others). There was some mild interest in it and i had a few early collaborators who helped shape the pages and provide photos of their seeds and observations.

Unfortunately due to heavy spam because of poor management and me not knowing enough to lock down the wiki i was experimenting with the site went down and the project went under. Thanks to John i was recently able to recover the text data for the wiki for the Pea Database Collaboration Project. I have backups of most of the photos.

I have decided at least for now, and probably permanently i am restoring the Pea Database Collaboration info on the OpenWetWare wiki. It was not designed for plant breeding necessarily, more for synthetic biology, IGEM, and other biology or chemistry science. But since their motto is "Share your science" i figure it will be fairly safe. In fact that is where i first started testing this idea before moving it to my website. In fact the original page was still there untouched when i went to restore the first one. I plan to back these up on my website later on (possibly in plain static html). The good thing about OpenWetWare is that they already have heavy anti-spam technologies in place. Later on i may decide to restore my wild tomato species info and watermelon genetics on there too.

https://openwetware.org/wiki/Pea_Database_Collaboration_Project

https://openwetware.org/wiki/Pea_Database_Collaboration_Project/Example-Template

http://biolumo.com/

Give me some time to restore the pages and as many of the photos as well. I also need to write the JIC John Innes Centre and ask that their pgene genetics database be fixed so my links in this wiki actually work again. Not all of the varieties listed on the main page even had pages created for them though. In fact i think Dwarf Grey Sugar was planned but never created, among others.

B. Copping

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #3 on: 2019-02-18, 03:43:51 PM »
That’s great news!
Do you think that JIC would let you mirror the relevant pages, so you wouldn’t have to worry about broken links?
Items that reach a reasonable stage of completeness get added to static html site?

Just tossing ideas out there.
:D

B. Copping

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #4 on: 2019-02-19, 01:26:42 PM »

triffid

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #5 on: 2019-02-20, 03:07:17 PM »
Give me some time to restore the pages and as many of the photos as well. I also need to write the JIC John Innes Centre and ask that their pgene genetics database be fixed so my links in this wiki actually work again. Not all of the varieties listed on the main page even had pages created for them though. In fact i think Dwarf Grey Sugar was planned but never created, among others.

Great project  :)

Last night I updated some of the JIC SeedStor accession and Pgene database links. New to editing a wiki so learning as I go.

I'll be recording data on all the varieties I grow this year, around 25. One early observation made while soaking some 'Kent Blue' peas - the blue-speckled seed remains desiccated and hard in the same time it takes the greens and browns to swell and fully germinate. Which may conform to the assertion that proanthocyandins in the seedcoat act as a germination inhibitor https://peerj.com/articles/6263/ . Or maybe they have thicker testa. Could this be an adaptation to dry climate?

(That pink flowered Golden Sweet is truly beautiful!)

Andrew Barney

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #6 on: 2019-02-21, 09:37:14 AM »
Great project  :)

Last night I updated some of the JIC SeedStor accession and Pgene database links. New to editing a wiki so learning as I go.

I'll be recording data on all the varieties I grow this year, around 25. One early observation made while soaking some 'Kent Blue' peas - the blue-speckled seed remains desiccated and hard in the same time it takes the greens and browns to swell and fully germinate. Which may conform to the assertion that proanthocyandins in the seedcoat act as a germination inhibitor https://peerj.com/articles/6263/ . Or maybe they have thicker testa. Could this be an adaptation to dry climate?

(That pink flowered Golden Sweet is truly beautiful!)

Hey thanks! I actually noticed the links you fixed! That weird spam filter on the JIC website is still there,  but at least the links work now.

The seeds and pod shape on my dwarf grey sugar peas remind me a lot of Kent Blue. Do you think they could be the same or highly related variety?

Not sure. A lot of the rounder seeds seem to have more starch and this might germinate slower,  but I don't know.

I just added a new pea trait table to the wiki. I was using it in excel / libre office for personal use to figure out which traits were on separate chromosomes and which ones were on the same one.

https://openwetware.org/wiki/Pea_Database_Collaboration_Project/Pea_Genetics
« Last Edit: 2019-02-21, 12:24:40 PM by Andrew Barney »

triffid

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #7 on: 2019-02-21, 08:20:58 PM »
Nice, that trait table will really come in handy.

I agree, Dwarf Grey and Kent Blue do appear to be very similar, and both are mangetout/snow peas. Kent testa looks a little greener, though I'm not sure how much this may change with the age of the seed.

B. Copping

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #8 on: 2019-02-23, 11:57:08 PM »
I have never grown ‘Kent Blue’.
Does that variety have seeds that are completely green?

I have never seen completely green seed in my population of ‘Dwarf Gray Sugar’
For me they are all green with purple/blue spots, which might turn brown with age.

Testa thickness: a general adaption to generally crappy growing conditions/mold/fungi in the spring?
(I haven’t had DGS rot in the ground yet.)

Great project  :)

Last night I updated some of the JIC SeedStor accession and Pgene database links. New to editing a wiki so learning as I go.

I'll be recording data on all the varieties I grow this year, around 25. One early observation made while soaking some 'Kent Blue' peas - the blue-speckled seed remains desiccated and hard in the same time it takes the greens and browns to swell and fully germinate. Which may conform to the assertion that proanthocyandins in the seedcoat act as a germination inhibitor https://peerj.com/articles/6263/ . Or maybe they have thicker testa. Could this be an adaptation to dry climate?

(That pink flowered Golden Sweet is truly beautiful!)

triffid

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #9 on: 2019-02-24, 11:04:12 AM »
I have never grown ‘Kent Blue’.
Does that variety have seeds that are completely green?

I have never seen completely green seed in my population of ‘Dwarf Gray Sugar’
For me they are all green with purple/blue spots, which might turn brown with age.

Testa thickness: a general adaption to generally crappy growing conditions/mold/fungi in the spring?
(I haven’t had DGS rot in the ground yet.)

There were a few seeds that appeared completely green and also a couple brownish types. They germinated faster than any of my other varieties. The rest are green with anthocyanin spots, as you describe for Dwarf Grey Sugar. It's possible the greens and browns are rogues - so I've labeled everything and grown in different modules.

I only have 10 Kent Blue from the heritage seed library, so not much to compare until the end of the season.

The speckled seed has been in the soil for a week with no signs of life. Stripped off some of the testa and resoaked - they're alive! If I left them to their own devices I'm not sure how many weeks later they would have naturally germinated. It's definitely a strategy for later emergence. And no signs of mold.

Andrew Barney

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #10 on: 2019-02-24, 11:29:23 AM »

The speckled seed has been in the soil for a week with no signs of life. Stripped off some of the testa and resoaked - they're alive! If I left them to their own devices I'm not sure how many weeks later they would have naturally germinated. It's definitely a strategy for later emergence. And no signs of mold.

Most of my peas take about 3 weeks to germinate. When direct seeded without pre soaking.
« Last Edit: 2019-02-25, 06:26:53 PM by Andrew Barney »

B. Copping

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Re: General Pea Information.
« Reply #11 on: 2019-02-25, 03:09:08 PM »
The variability in seed colouration could be a normal part of ‘Kent Blue’.
If the other plant traits are uniform, that makes it more likely.
There is nothing wrong with having different coloured seeds...as long as it’s normal for that variety.

A later emergence for some of the seeds could result in a longer harvest period (with smaller daily harvests).
That can be an advantage in the home garden. (Although it is difficult to have too many peas. Yum.)

I tend to soak DGS prior to planting.
The majority (95%) sprout within 3 days, max.
This is from seed I have saved.

You may find that you have different results when soaking the seeds that you save from this year’s plants.
Your saved seed may have more uniform maturity, so dormancy mechanisms might not show up as clearly.

...
I didn’t pay close attention to the emergence time for seed I planted dry last year.
Another item added to the list for this year.

In 2017, DGS went into the garden as transplants.
I had a plastic cup of seeds soaking, and then life interfered.
I changed the water daily, and had a cup full of 4” transplants by the time I was able to get back in the garden.
Gently teased them apart, planted ‘em, and they didn’t even flinch.
:D

The soil is still frozen solid here in balmy Canuckistan. Enjoy your seedlings!!!

There were a few seeds that appeared completely green and also a couple brownish types. They germinated faster than any of my other varieties. The rest are green with anthocyanin spots, as you describe for Dwarf Grey Sugar. It's possible the greens and browns are rogues - so I've labeled everything and grown in different modules.

I only have 10 Kent Blue from the heritage seed library, so not much to compare until the end of the season.

The speckled seed has been in the soil for a week with no signs of life. Stripped off some of the testa and resoaked - they're alive! If I left them to their own devices I'm not sure how many weeks later they would have naturally germinated. It's definitely a strategy for later emergence. And no signs of mold.