Author Topic: Direct Seeded Tomato Project  (Read 2854 times)

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #45 on: 2019-05-28, 10:39:44 PM »
True. Haven't yet planted anything but multiple species of tomatoes and two squash species. Have quite a few volunteers of things like peas, favas, lettuce, miners lettuce, and such if I can weed around them or better yet transplant them. Really need to plant allium seeds as they don't keep.

Have another area I rototilled twice. would love to till it again and plant lots of variety. Pretty busy with schoolwork right now though.
« Last Edit: 2019-05-28, 11:38:43 PM by William S. »
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naiku

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #46 on: 2019-05-30, 04:16:10 AM »
When it comes to direct-seeding, I recommend looking for the following:

• Seedling vigor (I've noticed some breeds tend to get bigger faster in my unheated greenhouse; I think this is perhaps the most important trait for direct-seeded tomatoes)
• Ability to withstand sudden, and dramatic, temperature changes (as well as sudden changes in rainfall)
• Early breeds (early to flower; quick to set fruit; quick for fruit to grow to size; quick to ripen)
• Those that are able to sprout in colder temperatures than average (and in both wet and dry conditions). This is very important, because tomato plants can grow at colder temperatures than they tend to sprout (normally).
• Prolific breeds (early isn't all that nice if you only get a few fruit overall)
• Wind-tolerant breeds

I've had success direct-seeding my Galapagos Island tomato (S. cheesmanieae), even though I direct-seeded it kind of late. It's the earliest tomato I've grown to date. I'm glad to hear about Sweet Cherriette, though. I definitely want to get it.

I didn't direct-seed these, but this year, the following tomatoes sprouted earlier in the season (when it was cooler):

Black Vernissage, Palestinian, Porter, Sausage. Black Beauty and Nodak Early were the first two to sprout in a much less desirable seed-starting mix (everything took longer to sprout and grow in it).

The following had great seedling vigor:

Chris Ukrainian, Black Dragon, Black Vernissage (much better vigor pre-transplant), Coyote, Matt's Wild Cherry, Marion, and probably others.

Marion had excellent germination (not only rates, but the seeds popped up pretty much perfectly and neatly).

The first plant to flower (of those I grew from seed) was Coyote. Others got buds pretty quickly, too: Bloody Butcher, Moravsky Div, Marion, Black Dragon, and Red Robin.

Last year, the first to sprout were these:

Super Marmande and Large-barred Boar. Neither were early to fruit, though. Frosty F. House, Burpee Gloriana and a number of others sprouted soon after—both of those would probably be good candidates for direct-seeding. Frosty F. House is quite early, with a polite plant, and I like the taste.

In 2017, the first to sprout were these:

Amethyst Jewel, Evergreen, Good Old Fashioned Red, Menehune, North Dakota Earliana, Green Pear, Girl GIrl's Weird Thing, Napa Giant, and Oroma. I don't recommend any of those for direct-seeding, personally. Green Pear seems to make a decent volunteer, though.

Sweet Orange Cherry is an early one with good post-transplant vigor (after it gets a certain size, anyway). It's prolific, too. Seeds have historically taken a while to sprout, though. It does seem to sprout faster every year, though.

One thing you can do instead of direct-seeding the traditional way is to squish a fruit where you want it to volunteer the season before. That seems to work a lot of the time. You just have to remember what it was and where you squished it.

Matina was a favorite for earliness and vigor in 2016. It didn't fruit as well in 2017, with less water, but the vines were still rampant.

If Brandy Boy F1 is anything like the accidental cross of a stabilized Brandy Boy with something else, then it could be a really nice one for direct-seeding). I'm growing out at least eight F2s from the accidental cross, this year. They were all in the less-optimal seed-starting mix (so, they got a late start, but they're looking good).

Sausage might be a good one, if it's not too late. Ask me at the end of the season. I didn't direct-seed it, but I did transplant some seedlings with only cotyledons. I imagine if they do well, direct-seeded ones might do even better.

Chocolate Pear might be a decent one. It's early and reasonably prolific. Sasha's Altai, Mountain Princess, Nodak Early, New Yorker V, Manitoba and others might be good, too.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-06, 06:06:32 PM by naiku »

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #47 on: 2019-05-30, 06:25:37 AM »
Most of those I will not try, just because I've already gathered enough germplasm to work with for a few years at least. I would however encourage you to try saving ample seed and direct seed them in your own garden. Also try crossing some of your favorites as that creates variation to select from in a new situation.

Of the tomatoes you mention I tried Matina and Coyote. Coyote made my top 10 list. It is decently early and has a good flavor. I think it also has dry farming potential. A coyote x sweet cherriette cross would be interesting.

Other interesting tomatoes I'm keeping around:

Brad
Jagodka
Big Hill
Blue Ambrosia
42 Days
Sweet Cherriette
Anmore Dewdrop
Sungold and its segregating descendants

Then for flavor I also like Amethyst Cream (not early enough to direct seed here) as well as the aforementioned Coyote, Sungold, and Big Hill. Blue Ambrosia might be a Sungold descendant.

I'm trying Cheesemanii this year for the first time with some seed Andrew sent.

I'm getting better at making intentional hybrids so I plan to work with this list of domestic germplasm I identified in 2017 and 2018. This year I hope to make some crosses between some of the above. I'm particularly focused this year on the flavor varieties and sweet cherriette. If I could get a tiny bit of hybrid seed of sweet cherriette crosses of each of those plus some of the half wilds that would make for a fun 2021 when the F2s segregate.

I am growing out primarily F2 seed of unknown father crosses of Blue Ambrosia and Big Hill. As well as some F2 seed of a potato leaf exserted from Josephs land race. For pure domestic tomatoes that is.

The habrochaites crosses produce a lot of slow seedlings. We may be strongly selecting for seedling vigour with our short season direct seeding of that.

Because of Josephs ongoing work he has incorporated Jagodka into Big Hill and Brad into Fairy Hollow. So this year I am more likely to do things like cross a Big Hill hybrid with Fairy Hollow. Or cross a Blue Ambrosia hybrid with a Big Hill hybrid. Or just let them cross in the wild as the exserted trait is now pretty common in my mix. There is probably already some crosses of Big Hill and Blue Ambrosia in my 2018 saved seed. All the short season reds have a fairly high degree of similarity so I think a lot of their utility may be in crossing with the more flavorful stuff.
« Last Edit: 2019-05-30, 01:42:48 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

naiku

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #48 on: 2019-06-06, 05:49:08 PM »
So, again, this isn't directly about direct-seeding, but I think the situation I'm about to mention is close enough to where the same principles might apply.

I've been experimenting with transplanting extra-young seedlings (like just cotyledons and/or very small first true leaves). My observation is that if transplanted when the weather is cooler, they take a long time to start growing much (like a few to several weeks). However, if transplanted when it's decently warm, they grow quite fast (and quickly grow at a rate where they can overtake those that were transplanted earlier), as in I notice visible growth in two or three days. So, I'm thinking direct-seeding when it's not too cool can probably be similarly advantageous.

When the daily highs were about 89 or 90° F. and the lows were maybe 55° F. is where I saw faster growth, this year, so far. The cooler temperatures maybe had highs in the 60s and 70s, or maybe even 80s. In both situations, we had black plastic around them.

The ones transplanted early do grow faster when it warms, but at this stage, they don't seem to grow as fast as those transplanted during the warmth.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-06, 06:01:00 PM by naiku »

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #49 on: 2019-06-06, 06:05:27 PM »
Lots of truth to that. Especially with the variety Sweet Cherriette. A nice fast growing plant sure outperforms a tortured one.
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William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #50 on: 2019-06-08, 12:15:13 PM »
Checked on tomatoes for the first time in two weeks yesterday. True leaves, starting to take off.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-08, 12:23:55 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

ImGrimmer

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #51 on: 2019-06-08, 02:56:51 PM »
One or two of the volunteers are blooming right now. 5 weeks after germination. (They are intended volunteers. I sow them right after the harvest last year) The seed mother was the first to germinate and the first to bloom last year.  More less the same 4-5 weeks after germination. Other lines are still tiny and struggle to grow. Even in the cold frame.

@William S. I see you have the "horror millet" as well :)

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #52 on: 2019-06-14, 06:26:45 AM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JRKSzWSPQnw

Some cooperators on this direct seeding project have had less success direct seeding because of flea beetles destroying the seedlings. Some of my seedlings in weedy beds mysteriously dissappeared last year before I got them weeded. Perhaps just competition.

This video has a specific hab trait responsible for arthropod resistance. That could be a possible solution to flea beetles eating the seedlings during direct seeding. At 13:25: in the video the donor is LA2329 not sure if that specific accession is in our hab x populations.


 Also notably it's been the Peruvianum volunteers that did best for everyone. Maybe they have similar resistances.

On an unrelated but project related note I'm going to be doing some weeding today. It will be interesting to see if any of the half wild proportion in the direct seeding can be located today by leaf traits. If so I may pop on a picture of the seedling later.

Edit update: 1/10 weeded. No half wilds detected. They represent about 5.6% of the seed planted. Next week may be more identifiable.

Decent numbers of potato leaf plants.

Will go back out and resume weeding after awhile. I'd like to get to the 1/3 mark today.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-14, 02:17:48 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

reed

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #53 on: 2019-06-14, 02:28:04 PM »

Decent numbers of potato leaf plants.


What is the significance of the potato leaf plants?

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #54 on: 2019-06-14, 02:36:07 PM »
A couple. I included a segregating population descended from a regular leaf descendent of a exserted potato leaf plant from a JL landrace mix. I'd love to recover a nicely exserted potato leaf because I can then do a messy bee made back cross it to any regular leaf and get easily identifiable hybrids.

Then Fairy Hollow is segregating back to potato leaf and I included the majority of my Fairy Hollow packet amongst the half wilds. 

It's also possible potato leaf DNA could be segregating from unknown fathers to the Blue Ambrosia hybrids from last year.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

reed

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #55 on: 2019-06-14, 06:15:53 PM »
Interesting, does normal leaf, potato leaf have a know dominant/recessive relationship? If so it might help me understand origin of some of the plants in my garden.

William S.

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #56 on: 2019-06-14, 06:58:52 PM »
 Yep potato leaf is recessive to regular leaf.

Not sure what will happen with some of the new leaf types from the wild species though.
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Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #57 on: 2019-06-14, 08:15:58 PM »
I direct seeded a couple thousand tomato seeds a few weeks ago. Some of them germinated. Most of those got eaten by flea beetles. I planted more a couple days ago. Flea beetle resistance would be a wonderful thing for me. Flea beetles tend to be less of a problem after my irrigation system becomes active (yesterday). Therefore I made a second planting. And, I did something that I haven't done in like 9 years. I sprayed! Mild soapy water on the ground around the tomatoes. I'm even wondering about diatomaceous earth. A couple weeks head start on the flea beetles would probably be enough.

Volunteer S peruvianum (complex) plants are growing in two of my fields. Solanum physalifolium reliably volunteers in my fields, as do tomatillos. I'm getting more serious about starting a domestication project on Solanum physalifolium.

One of my neighbors has a patch of S pimpinellifolium that has been volunteering for 15 years.

The only potato-leaved domestic tomato that I used in the crosses with S habrochaites was Brad. F1[Brad X habrochaites] was a great pollen donor, and grew robustly and set lots of fruits, therefore contributed well to the F2. Potato leaved plants show up occasionally in the offspring of the half-wildlings. I haven't tried to figure out how the other leaf shapes fit into a dominant/recessive model. Many of them appear to be in some sort of co-dominant relationship, where there are lots of intermediate leaf shapes. Makes me happy to know that fairy hollow is a descendant of Brad! That would explain her earliness, and productivity.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-14, 10:12:17 PM by Joseph Lofthouse »

naiku

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #58 on: 2019-06-14, 10:17:53 PM »
I wonder if spritzing the soil with mint or cinnamon essential oil would deter flea beetles.

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Direct Seeded Tomato Project
« Reply #59 on: 2019-06-14, 10:24:16 PM »
William: You have got me totally excited about selecting for Potato-Leaved Fairy Hollow! Planted more seeds tonight.