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Topics - William S.

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Tomatoes / Favorite Tomato Germplasm and 2021 desired crosses
« on: 2021-04-11, 08:25:51 PM »
I suppose my favorite tomato germplasm is that I want to make crosses with the most. I was looking over a list of my favorite short season varieties after 2017. Thinking about exciting new varieties I've encountered since. Then crossing out most of the boring red ones.

Big Hill is one I first grew in 2018. It's a great tomato. I still want to make more crosses with it. Most importantly with Mission Mountain Sunrise. Lower priority cross it to exserted tiger.

Want to cross exserted tiger with Mission Mountain Sunrise.

Want to cross exserted orange with the blue orange chile tressette descendents.

I think I would like to cross Payette with a exserted and or fancy tomato maybe Big Hill would do.

I would like to finally make a cross with sweet cherriette.

I would like to cross LA2329 with an XA1/A2 bicolor. I was thinking R18 or S35/36/37 but those are a smidgeon rarer.

LA2329 x MMSunrise might be nice though a little problematic until the prebreeding of getting a MMSunrise x Big Hill is done and an exserted segregate selected. Still might be doable.

Then maybe just a crossing block of exserted tomatoes: big hill, exserted orange, blue ambrosia, blue chile tressette, exserted tiger, exserted pimp x tressete cross. Spose I could plant it in the block with the obligates too.

Iron Lady, it would be nice to cross it with something Carol Deppe style. Maybe an exserted.

Tomatoes / Traditional Tomato Breeding Book
« on: 2021-04-11, 03:49:37 PM »
It would be cool if the various authors who have written book chapters or articles about tomato breeding. Carol Deppe who wrote a call to arms chapter about breeding for late blight resistance, Alan Kapuler who wrote about occasionally outcrossing tomatoes, Joseph Lofthouse who is currently writing a chapter on promiscuous and obligate outcrossing tomatoes for his new book, Craig Lehoullier who writes books and cofounded the dwarf tomato project, Laurie McKenzie who wrote the OSA organic seed guide, and Andrea Clapp who wrote the WTS articles on tomato breeding could all collaborate, put that info together into a single volume and then we might just have the perfect book by and for traditional tomato breeding.

Maybe add Tom Wagner and or some others in as well if they could contribute chapters.

OSSI pledged varieties / Mission Mountain Sunrise
« on: 2021-04-04, 07:40:05 PM »
So I am growing a tomato this year for an isolated seed growout. I am calling it "Mission Mountain Sunrise". My plan is to OSSI pledge it. Filled out the online portion of that the other day. The mail in portion is printed out and waiting to be mailed in.

In 2017 the mother of the cross was a very small direct seeded potato leaf with a modestly exserted stigma in a packed for ~2017 Joseph Lofthouse landrace. The father was most likely Brad Gate's Blue Gold tomato.

I grew the F1 in 2018, and then made selections from the F2 in 2019 and I chose the bluest bicolor in 2020 despite an apparently inserted stigma. Fruit size is small might technically be a large cherry tomato some of the plants were very early in 2020. It might be determinate but I am uncertain.

I am very glad to report that I spy some potato leaf seedlings already in the 2021 growout. If so those will be my seed stock for the next growout.

Future plans: cross to Big Hill to get a bigger version with exserted open flowers. I really want a yellow exserted flowered potato leaf tomato. I think it will be a good breeding tool.

Tomatoes / Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« on: 2021-03-28, 10:21:56 PM »
Ok, so I have lots of new tomato seedlings. Some have anthocyanin stem expression. Some do not. Edit: I am going to modify this to rank them 0 to 4 with 4 being qualitatively different.

Yellow Tasty Indigo Kumquat F4 has a particularly lovely violet that is qualitatively different. 4

Big Hill has some 2
Exserted Tiger has more 3
Coyote has 2
Amethyst cream has 2
Bosque Bronze has 2
Hab cytoplasm a little maybe 1
Pimp x Tressette variable 1 to 2
Blue Tressette chile shaped variable 0-2
S35,36,37 variable but rare 0-2
R18 no 0-1
Mission Mountain Sunrise yes variable 1-3
Exserted orange is variable 0-3
Promiscuous bicolor is variable 0-2
Dwarf Hirsutum X is a no 0
Wild Child no 0
Brad no 0
Iron Lady no 0
Earliest XL is variable but lighter 0-1
Ugly cracking f2? Is yes but light 1
Yellow round Chariot F5 is variable 0-1
Earl's Jagodka light yes 1
Ot' Jagodka light yes 1
42 Days no 0
Forest Fire no 0
Terrior Galapagense no 0-1
Great big blue red F3 yes 1
Sweet cherriette light yes 1
Blue Gold yes- maybe with the same extra as the indigo kumquat 3-4
Lucid Gem yes 3-4
Blue Ambrosia yes 1-2
Kinda like dark Galaxy F3 yes 2
And variable in LA2329 but mucheck higher percentage in the 2020 grown seed which stands to reason as anthocyanin fruits is known from the accession and one of the two good mothers had them. 0-2

With the potential Payette X grown from contaminate off type 2020 seedling I notice some variation but pretty light. 0-1 (2?4?) Still too young to compare. I thought I detected potential half strength single copy anthocyanin expression in the mother's fruit. I remember reading something someone wrote perhaps on homegrown goodness that antho tomatoes can be picked out very young via stem expression. So my thought was to pick out the antho dwarfs. Not so sure if the antho expression is extra weak. I may have guessed wrong on the half strength antho. Got it right on the blue gold Tressette F1 in 2019 though.

Also intriguing some non-antho varieties like Big Hill seem to express fairly strong stem anthocyanin. Given that this is plant sunscreen it makes sense for it to be wider spread. Wonder though if they are more likely to express fruit antho if combined with the "Aft" gene.

Tomatoes / Arthropod and Insect Resistant Tomatoes
« on: 2021-03-21, 11:09:39 PM »

Over a year ago now I watched the above video.

This led me to request a packet of LA2329 from the Tomato Genetics Conservation Center TGRC.

Currently growing that accession a second time.

One of my primary thoughts originally is that this could make a difference for direct seeding tomatoes for cooperators that were struggling with early season mortality from mites (correction: flea beetles)

Thought I should start a dedicated thread.

This is definitely a thread to talk about definitions but also the utility of language and in particular jargon or technical terms.

I am editing the word landrace out of a lesson plan to make it a clearer lesson for students at instructor suggestion.

It is working great. Maybe a little to great. It seems like the lesson is clearer if I just say "population" and then explain that some populations are highly variable

What do you think? Do we even need our favorite words for making plant breeding techno babble? Is it essential language or does it just put up barriers and ultimately thin down our ranks?

Tomatoes / What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« on: 2021-01-24, 10:51:48 PM »
I have seven tomato gardens with the 150' separation I currently think necessary to isolate exserted and other promiscuous tomatoes. One of the seven will be a mixed bunch for everything that doesn't get full isolation.

I have two packets Joseph sent from the 2020 Idaho growouts.

1. R18 which may have iffy flavor but was judged to be highly promiscuous.

2. The second packet from the highly evaluated Idaho growouts was the promiscuous crowd favorite with best flavor.

3. My own growout of the 2019 G3 material yielded my favorite seed packets which have bicolors. Flavor seemed ok. Promiscuity not properly evaluated in 2020. My name idea might be "Big Mountain" if any prove to be fully promiscuous.

7. Also have XL which is a nice group of reds from the 2019 G2 material. Flavor varied. Evidence trends toward not fully promiscuous. Not sure if this makes the cut for a 2020 growout. Maybe in the mixed bunch.  Uncertain.

7. The extra fuzzy insect resistant habrochaites LA 2329 will be in the mixed bunch for sure as will the hab mother line from Joseph. I may put one plant of each of the elite lines of promiscuous in hopes of them contributing pollen to the mostly wild hab mother/cytoplasm lines.

4. Have an unnamed short season small blue bicolor I want to advance so it will get a isolation spot. Ideas for name?

5. As yet unnamed small intense colored blue yellow chile shaped tomato that segregated from a Golden Tressette off type with some half strength blue. Will get an isolation spot. Ideas for name?

6.Exserted orange may get an isolation spot if there is enough demand for it to be grown out again.

I suspect I grew enough Big Hill, Exserted tiger, and payette seed in 2020 that none of those will need grown in 2021.

7. I think that's seven. Though in the mixed bunch I will also grow a plant or so of each of my favorites (coyote, big hill, amethyst cream, sweet cherriette, fake galapagense,) probably also a section of peruvianum types and maybe a block of penellii types. Probably a few plants of various species tomatoes. Probably the packet I saved from a exserted pimp type that should have been a Golden Tressette. Hopefully it was an F1 hybrid with the exserted pimp Andrew sent me and will segregate wildly and produce some exserted yellow pimp like cherries! Will also reprise my direct seeded experiment here, probably entirely with 2020 promiscuous lines seed I grew myself as these may also contribute pollen to the hab cytoplasm promiscuous lines.

So today and tonight I extracted seed from the G2 of Autumn's Choice F1.

I noticed a small green streak in one section of one of the fruits. Not uncommon especially in my maxima grex but notable in a moschata given recent discussion of Ayote squash. Flesh was otherwise pale, a bit rubbery, and not very promising for long storage or flavour. Will know more about the flavor once it finishes cooking. Update: flavor as expected, not exciting, bland and unappealing. Hope it out crossed to Lofthouse and the deep orange flesh will show back up eventually. If not maybe better flesh flavor will get introduced next year.

I only got ~4 squash with the banded yellow and green skin in 2020 and a couple in 2019. I do have some of the Thai X population that was prevalent in 2019 still to open but they were isolated to semi isolated.

In 2021 this will be my main moschata population
Edit: might be. Not sure the best way to approach the next generation. I would say the F2 was not promising in terms of flavor. So maybe I should not make an enormous growout of the F3. Would like to have at least one plant with the color pattern though.

Supplemented with the Guatemalan ayote if it arrives safely and some Lofthouse but probably something like half the packet of ayote, ten seeds or so of Lofthouse and maybe all but ten reserve seeds of the G3 Autumn's Choice.

Oh and the G2 Tetsukabuto which should produce some viable pollen. Edit: (this might actually be my bigger growout). Wonder how many have Autumn's choice F2 as the pollen parent? Have yet to extract seeds.

 The Tetsukabuto F1 was pollinated by either or both the Autumn's choice or the Lofthouse Buttercup as it was right in between the two. I'll also plant some Maximoss if I can find the seed I saved or if I have some from Joseph still. It may have gotten into my main Maxima grex at a low level.

Edit: will hold off on Thai X genetics in 2021 except for genes already crossed in to the Autumn's Choice. Will not buy a new packet of Rancho for now.

Wonder if I should plant more strait Lofthouse genetics or seed saved from Lofthouse parents at least in 2021.

Swaps & Gatherings / Open Source Seed Exchange?
« on: 2020-12-15, 08:21:36 PM »

Tomatoes / Tomato communication
« on: 2020-07-10, 01:49:10 PM »

I bet tomato plants are all like. How's the water over there? You got any spare nutrients? Hey there's a bug biting me: everyone make more defensive chemicals!

It's been a cold wet spring. With occasionally a few hot days. The fava beans have fruit set finally far down on the stalks.

I think the switch is flipped though and dry season is starting. 80s...

Tomatoes however- well there are a few. I spot green tomatoes on Wild Child, Exserted Orange, and Payette. Though literally only on ~3 individual plants so far.

Some of the domestic blossoms have aborted because of the weird weather.

I didn't plant anything like Siletz which forms it's first fruits without pollination. Too bad. This may have been the year to plant it!

The Bombus are about but they aren't really visiting the tomatoes yet. Soon I suppose.

Lots of flowers no fruits yet on most tomatoes including the obligate out crossers. Those won't set fruit till the Bombus get into tomato mode. Every year they do this. Maybe the thill of Monarda fistulosa has to fade a little or maybe brood needs protein from pollen at a certain stage. Dunno why. Guess it gives time to see which ones abort and do not self.

Community & Forum Building / Happy 50th Earth Day
« on: 2020-04-22, 07:47:12 AM »
Happy 50th Earthday. Planting anything special?

Thought I might transplant tomatoes. Have some Lonicera caerulea I might plant somewhere.

What are you planting differently than you would have?

I'm thinking about maybe adopting more of a practical food focus.

Maybe not quite so experimental as I am sometimes.

That might mean potatoes, carrots, sweet corn, domestic tomatoes, winter squash, spaghetti squash, summer squash, spinach, orach, green beans, siberian kale, and beets.

I mean of course after all the odd stuff I have already planted or started.

Tomatoes / Micro Tomatoes
« on: 2020-03-08, 11:42:42 AM »
We have had some conversations on this forum about the need for blight resistance breeding in tomatoes. Now it seems time to start talking about micro tomatoes.

I don't know if it would count as micro for sure but my one plant of F2 Lizzano last year was within the size range mentioned and is homozygous for the two late blight resistances.

Another thing that interests me about these is that they would be the perfect size for winter generations.

Though that also means that summer populations could be simply enormous which would make selection easy.

The smallest tomato plant varieties in my seed collection are also almost uniformly ultra early reds.

Off the top of my head:

Lizzano F2
Anmore Dewdrop
42 Days
Sweet Cherriette

Are all very small plants, though I am uncertain if they are small enough.

It would seem likely to me that a breeding effort with micros would also forward goals of getting more flavors and colors into ultra earlies because very small plant size seems to couple with earliness.

A really straightforward project for late blight disease resistance in micros might be to work with Lizzano and Skykomish to make a tiny bicolor without any of the problems associated with keeping the homozygous blight resistances.

Making controlled crosses is easier for me indoors so having a winter generation to make F1's with micros makes sense to me.

Does anyone have any grow light recommendations for winter micros?

Note: I'm not yet involved with micros and know nothing much about them- just thought I would point out a few possibilities , so am hoping someone who does will chime in quickly.

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