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Messages - Klaus Brugger

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If you wanted even more purple on the plant, you could try crossing it with purple podded rat-tail radishes.

That's a good idea for sure. I also thought about crossing with purple microgreen radish. The problem for me is finding material where I'm positive that I can work with it and still be in compliance with both intellectual property rights and Nagoya regulations. Not that easy, it seems. :-/

Klaus, I must say I look forward to your posts as the quality of content is A*.

'Bora King/Bluemoon F1' is a Korean winter radish with purple flesh which you may find useful. But the radishes you have so far are beautiful. The speckled one is particularly quaint. :)

Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Also, thanks for the 'Bora King'/'Blue Moon' tip. Do you think these two are the same cultivar? I'm a bit hesitant about working with hybrid varieties (including 'Green Meat', for that matter) because of male sterility. I'm not really sure yet how common CMS is in radishes though.

As for the speckled one: There's actually a historic cultivar called 'Triumph', or 'mottled forcing' ( that apparently has a similar phenotype. Doro pointed out that there's also a Finnish turnip called 'Enon Kanta' where some plants will have speckled bulbs ( I'm planning to grow 'Triumph' and 'Enon Kanta', as well as some F3 plants of my own speckled ones, this year. If everything goes well, I will do a write-up in autumn and start another thread about speckled crucifer bulbs ...

Greens & Brassicas / Watermelon Radish × Purple-Skinned Radish
« on: Yesterday at 11:22:28 AM »

I just wanted to quickly share some pictures of a radish project I'm currently working on.
In 2019, I crossed 'Red Meat', a classic watermelon radish with white/green exterior and red interior and 'Malaga', a small bordeaux/purple radish. I also did 'Red Meat' × 'Diana'. My goal was to eventually get a short-season spring radish with red or purple meat. The F1s were quite heterogeneous (as were the open-pollinated parents) and often showed a nice green interior where the bulb had been exposed to sunlight (first picture).

I only grew F2 plants of 'Red Meat' × 'Malaga' (all the other pictures). I wanted maximum anthocyanins in the whole plant so I already selected seeds that had a purplish or reddish color. It seemed to work, in a way, since most of my F2 plants were nicely colored – just not on the inside. It seemed like in my population, red/purple flesh was rather strongly linked to white exterior of the bulb and low anthocyanin levels in the leaves.

I'm not really sure how I'll proceed now. I kind of want to continue working with the F2 bulbs I have. I'm thinking about selecting for an intensely red fall radish. I also really like the combination of purple epidermis/cortex and green flesh but I think a cross with 'Green Meat' would get you better results in this respect. I will definitely try to stabilize the "spotted" phenotype that some of the bulbs exhibited (last picture). But maybe that's a story for another thread sometime.

Edit: Sorry, I think I just posted this to the wrong board. I just read Brassica something something  :-[.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-16, 07:25:02 AM »
Why do not try to see the color of thé pulpit at différents périods of developpement of the fruit.
For cucurbita maxima and probably moschata it existed the yellow pulpit (délica,sweet mama), the orange pulpit and for cucurbita pepo the with pulpit.
Orange is dominant at yellow.
For citrulus lunatus, orange pulpit=red x yellow.
In normal Time thé green is associated at the chlorophyl and the orange is associated at her degradation.
This green is look like  dominant at the orange.

It would definitely be interesting to cut fruits at different developmental stages!

In the watermelon material I know, red × yellow will be either yellow (if you've used a "canary yellow" cultivar) or red.  But talking about watermelons and green flesh: In Citrullus, green flesh color has been shown to be due to chlorophylls by Davis et al. (2008-2009)*. Unfortunately, the publication doesn't mention which accession was the intensely green one in the last picture.

*Davis, A. R., Perkins-Veazie, P., King, S. R., & Levi, A. (2008-2009). Cucurbit Genetics Cooperative Report 31-32, 8-10.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-16, 03:53:36 AM »
It is possible that the green color isn't something she considered mentioning. Suppose we can figure out if the squash is green prior to being cut open ourselves.

At least some definitely seem to be green prior to being cut open. But it would be cool if anyone who has ordered relevant material could check how the colors develop after cutting.
I still have to figure out how to get such material legally to Europe or if there are sources within the EU. Tropical material probably won't work here anyway.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-15, 12:58:33 PM »
I found this Colombian paper* that links the green color to an oxidation process, if I read it right. Seems like in some squashes the color only develops over time when the fruits have been cut open. Now I wonder even more which substance is responsible for this coloring. I had assumed that it's probably chlorophylls, but this does not sound like chlorophyll synthesis ...

I also quickly went through some papers by Linda Wessel-Beaver from around the time she took the photos of the GRIN accessions you linked to. But I didn't come across any mention of the green color.

*Vásquez Gamboa, G., Ortiz Grisales, S., Vallejo Cabrera, F. A., & Salazar Villareal, F. A. (2017). Morpho-agronomic assessment of introductions of butternut squash (Cucurbita moschata Duch.) from Central America. Revista Facultad Nacional de Agronomía Medellín, 70(1), 8057-8068.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-14, 12:55:47 PM »
Wow, thank you, Garrett, for all this information. I love how knowledge accumulates in this forum.
Seems like this trait is more common than I thought in different types of C. moschata. I wonder why it seems to be more or less absent farther way from the center of diversity (at least in Europe and North America).

The banded tromboncino is from one of Jim Myers' breeding populations (Oregon State University). Apparently the yellow is from Columbian moschata material ( It would be interesting if this is a locus similar to B in C. pepo.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-11, 03:52:09 AM »
There's also 'Aloha Atitlan' sold by the Hawaiʻi Seed Growers Network, a cross between a green-fleshed Guatemalan "ayote" (possibly the same that EFN offers) and a local moschata (to have the green flesh in a locally better adapted population).
Unfortuntely, it's also sold out at the moment:
Here's another picture of 'Aloha Atitlan':

And here's another picture of a green-fleshed squash, possibly the same EFN offers, from a CBN variety showcase (second picture of the slide show): .

I'm exhausted just reading part of the paper.  Rasmusson certainly did a thorough job.

Where have the times gone when you could have a 152 page paper being accepted and published? ::)

Legumes / Re: Tannins in pea shoots and pods
« on: 2021-01-11, 03:39:02 AM »
If you want to invest in a sensitive method, this radial diffusion method requires agar plates containing protein which I guess you'd have to buy, but it sounds really easy to quantify the plant tannins - you put the extract in a well in the middle and then measure the diameter of the ring that forms.  And it says anthocyanins and such do not affect the results.  Could be the simplest approach.

Thanks again for all this great information! I really like the assay method described in the last paper. It would be much easier having just standard lab equipment (I don't even have piston-driven pipettes at hand), but I guess it should be possible even "at home". I just saw that there are also really cool ready-to-use microplate assay kits for vegetable proteins that probably wouldn't even be more expensive. But for these I'd need at least a microplate reader and probably a centrifuge. There's an open "group lab" (used for "DYI biology" etc.) a 2.5 hour drive away from me. I'll have to check which equipment they have.

Legumes / Re: Tannins in pea shoots and pods
« on: 2021-01-10, 11:36:35 AM »
Thank you for your interesting answers, very much appreciated!
It would be really cool to have an easy test for tannins giving reliable results. I've only looked into it very quickly and found suitability for condensed tannins, specificity (specific for phenolic compounds not being helpful when tannins are associated with anthocyanins ...), and hazards of used substances when not working in an appropriate lab to be obstacles. I will look into your suggestions, thank you very much! :-)

and since we have now ventured into pea genetics in regard to pods for good snow / snap peas for the n and v genes, here is a nice photo that shows how to identify what genes your pea lines have or don't have. I think Templeton from AU said you can use a blue stain to show where the fiber is.

There's this paper by Rasmusson (1927) where he uses a lignin test (with phloroglucin) on pods of different pod parchment types to colour the sclerenchymatic tissue red (see pages 47 ff.). The pictures (especially pages 50 and 51) are nice, too.

Rasmusson, J. (1927). Genetically changed linkage values in Pisum. Hereditas, 10(1-2), pp. 1-152.

Cucurbits / Re: Green-Fleshed Guatemalan
« on: 2021-01-10, 10:51:48 AM »
This is a really cool trait.
I wonder if it originally came from C. argyrosperma. Merrick (1990) writes about a dark green tint to the placental tissue being unique to var. stenosperma within domesticated subsp. argyrosperma.
There are a few C. argyrosperma accessions listed in GRIN that seem to have this trait, e. g.
PI 512123 (picture)
PI 196923 (picture)
PI 312167 (picture)
These three accessions are all of Mexican origin, but not all of them seem to belong to the same botanical variety. Maybe the trait has even found its way into close relative C. moschata ...
In 2017, Baker Creek Seeds posted a picture of a squash from Mexico that's presumably C. moschata with a vivid green to its placental tissue, "seeping" deep into the mesocarp. I don't think it has ever made it into their catalogue.

Merrick, L. C. (1990). Systematics and Evolution of a Domesticated Squash, Cucurbita argyrosperma, and Its Wild and Weedy Relatives. In D. M. Bates, R. W. Robinson, & C. Jeffrey (Eds.), Biology and Utilization of the Cucurbitaceae (pp. 77–119). Ithaca: Cornell University Press.

Legumes / Tannins in pea shoots and pods
« on: 2020-12-26, 05:31:32 AM »
Last year, I found a single seed with clear testa and hilum in a packet of 'E.F.B. 33' winter peas. I hope that it's a mutant that will allow me to compare shoots and pods of white-flowered/low-tannin and purple-flowered/high-tannin peas of the same genetic background.
I'm curious about your opinions on or experiences with white- vs. purple-flowered varieties for shoot and pod use.

I've written this little text with some literature references for a different platform, but maybe it's interesting for some of you:

In peas, a lack of pigments in hilum and seed coat is associated with seeds* of lower tannin levels and, consequently, a “sweeter” taste [1]. The same genotype confers a lack of anthocyanins in the whole plant and, presumably, also reduced tannins throughout the plant. For this, however, I only have “anecdotal evidence”, like white-flowered forage peas being marketed as more palatable and purple mangetouts often having a rather astringent taste. Interestingly, in a tasting of pea shoots of one purple-flowered and three white-flowered winter peas, the purple-flowered variety ('E.F.B. 33') came out on top [2]. In this picture, you see both the pigmented seeds of 'E.F.B. 33' and seeds grown from a single seed with clear hilum/seed coat I found in a packet of 'E.F.B. 33'. I hope that this line proves to be a mutant only differing from 'E.F.B. 33' at the locus of interest (comparing UPOV characteristics will at least enable me to make a guess). Having such “near-isogenic lines” available could permit conclusions about taste differences between shoots of low tannin and high tannin peas.
Generally, near-isogenic lines are lines possessing almost, but not quite, the same genotype as their sister or parent line. Typically, they are generated by recurrent backcrossing where after several generations they differ from their recurrent parent merely at the locus under selection. They then can be used in phenotyping experiments to determine the effects of polymorphisms at this one locus.

Another reason why it would be nice to have a white-flowered line near-isogenic to 'E.F.B. 33' is because 'E.F.B. 33' ranks among the most winterhardy pea cultivars. Winterhardiness seems to be linked to presence of anthocyanins in traditional winter pea material [3] but this linkage might have been broken in newer varieties. Today, several white-flowered varieties with good winterhardiness exist, some even being semi-leafless, a trait morphologically associated with a higher susceptibility to freezing injury as shown in experiments with – yes! – near-isogenic lines [4].

*While tannins are present in the seed coat, in the cotyledons bitter tasting saponins play a more important role [5].

[1] Clark, S. (2019): Pea (Pisum sativum L.) Characteristics for Use and Successful Planting. USDA, NRCS, Big Flats, NY. Plant Materials Technical Note No. 19-01.
[2] ARCHE NOAH (2019): Aktivitätsbericht Zuckererbse. Sorten- und Produktentwicklungen aus Gemüseraritäten in der Region Kamptal in einem partizipativen Prozess: LEADER-Projekt März 2016 – Februar 2019.
[3] Markarian, D., Harwood, R.R., & Rowe, P.R. (1968): The inheritance of winter hardiness in Pisum II. Description and release of advance generation breeding lines. Euphytica, 17, pp. 110–113.
[4] Étévé, G. (1985): Breeding for Cold Tolerance and Winter Hardiness in Pea. In: P.D. Hebblethwaite, M.C. Heath, & T.C. Dawkins (Eds.): The Pea Crop: A Basis for Improvement London, Butterworths, pp. 131–136.
[5] Tulbek, M.C., Lam, R.S.H., Wang, Y.(C.), Asavajaru, P., & Lam, A. (2017): Pea: A Sustainable Vegetable Protein Crop. In: S.R. Nadathur, J.P.D. Wanasundara and L. Scanlin (Eds.): Sustainable Protein Sources, London, Academic Press, pp. 145–164. 

Very cool thread, thank you Andrew!

I wonder if the astriatus trait (Astr) conferring "short purple-violet longitudinal stripes" ( is basically what we see on the pictures B and C of Pisum fulvum here.
Accession PIS 7608 of IPK Gatersleben that has "Astr" specified is a P. fulvum mutant (

Have you considered including Cucurbita argyrosperma into your project? Many cultivars/landraces seem to have been selected specifically for seed use and the two species should be more or less interfertile.

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