Open Source Plant Breeding Forum

General Category => Plant Breeding => Sweet Potatoes => Topic started by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-11, 11:20:51 PM

Title: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-11, 11:20:51 PM
I'm only a resent participant in what is and will be an fascinating project me given the level of diversity that has shown up thus far for a few members who are already two of three years down the track. Ive added the name Camote as this is the name the Facebook group that I started among a number of New Zealand growers, it separates any new clones from the non-flowering heirloom Kumara clones that have been grown here since before European colonization. 

So far I have nine seedlings that are doing ok, though two of them are slower growing than the rest, still about till end of frost season and plant out time. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-10-13, 09:33:13 AM
This post is mostly to see how posting pictures works on the new forum.
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1965/31417922578_36aaaabd07_b.jpg)
looks like you still need to host the image elsewhere. All I see now is the code,maybe I need to hit post.

Yep, that appears to work, looks like I need to adjust the size some though. I'll do that in future. I apologize for putting that ugly writing on my pictures but I don't have any permits to be transferring live plant material across state or national boundaries, plus I don't want to. I'v had unsolicited communication from people I don't know about that, so I want my position on it to always be clear.
 
That picture shows  some whole plants with everything removed except some stems with maturing seed capsules. Also there in the bottle some capsules just on their stems. This seems to work pretty good to squeeze out a few more seeds at end of season. Most that are at least 1/2 size of a mature capsule will finish up fine this way.

I have traded or gifted some seeds in the past and may still be open to that in future but probably not this season. I want to build my own stock to the point I might be able to offer a sweet potato grex under the OSSI pledge. Exception is two people from HG I'v promised seed two. I have your addresses and since you are both in the northern hemisphere I'm not in a big hurry to get them sent off but you will get them before you need them.

I'm writing up a synopsis of my experience with sweet potatoes over last 5 years and what I'v learned along the way in a word processor. I'll come back and paste it in a new post later.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Mike Jennings on 2018-10-13, 10:19:40 AM
This is my first year growing True Sweet Potato Seeds (TSPS). I received seeds from Reed which, I think, came from a cross between an ornamental sweet potato and couple of heirloom clones known to flower reliably. The result has been a very prolific seed producing line.

My plants are still producing lots of seed, so Iím holding off harvesting the roots. I have culled a few that were not producing seeds, though. So far, they have all had pink skin and white flesh, which is not really what Iím looking for. They were tasty enough, though. One was a tiny bit fibrous. I am told that there are also orange and purple flesh types in this genepool as well. Some plants are bushy, some viney. It seems like about 30% flower profusely. I wonder if we can increase that % through selection?

Sweet potato is a hexaploid and usually self-incompatible, so there should be a lot of genetic diversity that will come out of these seeds. I am working on adding to it this year, with a few purple fleshed heirlooms that have flowered and produce seed alongside the seed grown plants. Presumably, they all crossed with each other. The seed grown plants have the valuable trait of beginning to flower during the longest days of the year. I suspect some of the early flowering genes may have come from the ornamental sweet potato. The heirlooms didnít begin flowering until a month or 2 later.

My main goal with this project, besides finding some promising new clones to grow in future seasons, is to produce lots of seeds to share with collaborators. I live in a climate where sweet potatoes grow very well, but for those in cool, short season climates, true seeds will be essential for adapting this valuable staple crop.

I sowed a total of 18 seeds in early March. 15 seedlings were vigorous enough plant out in early May. 5 seed-grown plants have flowered profusely and are producing lots of seed. As of today, I estimate that I have collected around 600 seeds! Iím pretty happy with that.

(Not sure why one photo is upside-down and the other is not. They were both righways up on my computer.)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: bill on 2018-10-13, 04:37:14 PM
This is awesome.  Sweet potato breeding has really taken off the past few years.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-10-14, 03:13:16 AM
Some comments on Mike's post and a little more.

"I received seeds from Reed which, I think, came from a cross between an ornamental sweet potato and couple of heirloom clones known to flower reliably."
-That is kind of sort of how it happened. The first time I saw seeds they came from a purple ornamental. *they were selfed* and I have confirmed self compatibility again since then.
-The second time I got seeds they came primarily from the heirloom clones and the G1 plants from the selfed seeds.
-The G1 plants themselves looked almost identical to the parent, bloomed even more and made comparatively FEW seeds. Weird huh?

Because of the phenotypes that showed up later I am sure however that the G1s did provide a lot of pollen to the heirlooms, however the heirlooms had set seed before the G1s bloomed so some seeds were between the heirlooms. Or mabey some of those were also selfed? Who knows but plants of apparently identical phenotype to each heirloom also showed up later as well as lots of new ones.

"I am told that there are also orange and purple flesh types in this genepool as well. Some plants are bushy, some viney. It seems like about 30% flower profusely. I wonder if we can increase that % through selection?"

- Roughly for meit is the same range, about 30% flower profusely but out of those some do not make seeds.  Very roughly, maybe 10%, flower profusely, make plenty of seeds, AND make nice roots. Out of those I guess 25% are the sweet orange/orange roots and one so far is my personal favorite sweet PURPLE/ORANGE. ***the amount of cool stuff is going up each generation!!! not necessarily in number but the cool factor.

- I think about anything might be possible through selection but it would take a massive effort.
- These plants are ridiculously diverse and variable. Phenotypes wildly different from any of the parent generations such as all white roots, all purple roots and massive vines have showed up.
-** their reported tendency to mutate, especially in early generations is also confirmed. I have seen two examples so far of different root color from slips off the same root. I have little doubt that these mutations also occur in all other areas, such as seediness, self compatibility and so on.

the seed grown plants have the valuable trait of beginning to flower during the longest days of the year. I suspect some of the early flowering genes may have come from the ornamental sweet potato. The heirlooms didnít begin flowering until a month or 2 later

- I have seen no correlation between flowering and day length at all.
- I had a plant this year that flowered at it's first set of true leaves, mid May. It grew into a massive, stunningly beautiful vine with huge amounts of flowers,  5% at best of the flowers produced seeds. Maybe a particular other plant growing too far away contributed the pollen it needed? Again who knows? It made NO large roots at all.
- Seed production seems to be better in later part of summer but I think it's related to the heat and dryness, fewer flowers abort when it's hot. Many flowers and young capsules abort during cool wet spells.


Mike, I'm not surprised you had good success at getting seeds, the more northern folks I'v heard from, not surprisingly, were less successful but they did get some seeds and some decent sized roots.  Still, a lot of work to be done there.






 



Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-14, 01:31:15 PM
Just an observation, this morning i noticed on the right my fastest growing seeding which is in the smaller of the two sized pots has yet to grow roots out the bottom when compared to the one on left, I'm wondering if this could be a sign of a shallower tuber forming clone. I'll tag the seedlings with longer roots and see what happens later. 
(https://image.ibb.co/h4tiTp/IMG-20181015-081549-resized-20181015-081745455.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-10-14, 04:06:59 PM
Richard, I have noticed that when they first sprout some grow faster above and some below the ground. It reminded me of Carol Deppe's discussion of the same phenomenon in corn. If I remember right, for corn she regarded root development first, as positive, cause it helped resist being pulled up by birds.

For sweets I have no clue if it is related to what I call the "clump root" trait of if one or the other is in any way positive. If you keep track of it though I'll be interested in how it comes out cause now that you mention it, early root development might easily be related to mature root type.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-14, 10:26:41 PM
I will be keeping track, in fact i might get a note book and jot down all these wee traits, who knows, maybe this could be a sign of shallower tuber forming.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-10-17, 04:46:46 AM
Another attempt to get pictures right. It shows one of my first confirmed mutations. It grew from a shriveled up orange/orange root that was discarded after taking slips. All the other slips came out the same as the parent root but this one came out pink/oranage.

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1951/30442688417_3e71d92b39_b.jpg)

Umm, Its 800 pixels wide but still have to scroll horizontal, don't like that. Anybody know how to fix it? Could just trim it down to 700 or 600 I reckon.

The synopsis of my adventure with sweet potatoes is turning into more of a book. Might be awhile till its done.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Oxbow Farm on 2018-10-17, 04:54:43 AM
It looks right to me.  I don't have to scroll on my screen.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2018-10-17, 09:07:36 AM


You could add code like this to the img tag to set the size of the image: width=xxx height=xxx

Code: [Select]
[img width=640 height=480]http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1951/30442688417_3e71d92b39_b.jpg[/img]
I have modified the code to make that the default for future linked images. Clicking on the image will display it full sized.

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1951/30442688417_3e71d92b39_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-17, 12:14:52 PM
Another attempt to get pictures right. It shows one of my first confirmed mutations. It grew from a shriveled up orange/orange root that was discarded after taking slips. All the other slips came out the same as the parent root but this one came out pink/oranage.

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1951/30442688417_3e71d92b39_b.jpg)

Umm, Its 800 pixels wide but still have to scroll horizontal, don't like that. Anybody know how to fix it? Could just trim it down to 700 or 600 I reckon.

The synopsis of my adventure with sweet potatoes is turning into more of a book. Might be awhile till its done.

The size you posted is also good for me, though i notice the size of the photo in the quotes become smaller
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-10-28, 10:10:43 PM
Had a couple of cold nights close to freezing and cool days 12C highs, so the Camote seedlings that ive had planted outside wouldn't be gaining much growth, even though they still look nice and green apart from the purple leaf seedling, thought they may as well be covered over with some plastic that was over a bed of tomatoes, they dont really need it any longer.

From front to the back in the photo is garlic as aside for yet another TGS attempt, second bed in Medbury red onions, the larger bed is for a new pumpkin grex to be planted in to last summers corn residue with a coupe of wheelbarrow loads chucked on top , behind that the Camote, next Dartmoor Brussels Sprouts flowering and strangely one plant that not, then Benhorn carrot with insect net against carrot fly.
Click on photo to enlarge
(https://preview.ibb.co/hD24Fq/IMG-20181029-164624-resized-20181029-044846660.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jPCRTA)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-11-12, 03:03:55 PM
I was cleaning out my camera and came across these pictures. The first one is interesting I think cause it shows how much diversity is in sweet potatoes. Don't remember if I posted it on HG or not. Anyway it shows some root color phenotypes that don't match any of the original parents. ONE original parent of these plants was orange/orange the other were ALL purple/white but you can see these don't match that. And this is just some of those that showed up different than the ancestors. As always no plant material is for sale or trade but these are all extinct anyway. The two on the left cause of the disease or bug damage and the two on the right cause they didn't make seed. Actually the far left one does match a parent type.

The second picture is what I regard as a Grade A sweet potato seed. Perfectly formed, nice dark color. Lighter brown ones and smaller ones do sprout but I think this is what they are supposed ot look like. Sorry nothing for scale but they are bigger than 1/8 inch,smaller than a 1/4.



Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-11-12, 09:38:36 PM
Nice looking seed alright.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-11-27, 03:21:53 AM
Sweet potato seed harvest for 2018 is officially over. The seeds pictured are the last of them, they matured on the cuttings I am keeping on the window sill. Most were already forming when I brought them in but a few were hand pollinated on flowers that bloomed inside. A couple plants are still trying to bloom but the buds abort before opening, too chilly in that drafty window and too much cloudy weather I imagine. I doubt the smaller, browner ones are good.

Those four seeds to the left are very interesting and a mystery of sorts. I just harvested them a few minutes ago. They came from the last good flower, it was all by itself and I did not mess with it. They are certainly selfed but the structure of the flowers is such that pollination is difficult without some physical manipulation. I guess I must have jostled it around enough while watering or something. They came from a plant that made nice sized roots and are the first confirmed self pollination from something other than a stringy root plant.

All the rest of the seeds are stored away, some in the freezer and some in a stainless steel canister two feet in the ground, I know it sounds goofy but their safe. I'm thinking these may be the only ones I plant next year.

I now have eight plants that produce good roots and seeds and I have them all both as windowsill house plants and stored roots. Lots more to do as far as selecting for traits I like and I won't be able to do that if I don't start a lot of seeds but next year it might be better to invest in more new commercial clones and try to increase the diversity first.


Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-11-27, 10:10:15 AM
Sounds like you are making good progress.
So potentially how many commercial clones are available on the market, be lucky to be only 5-6 here.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-11-27, 02:13:33 PM
Sounds like you are making good progress.
So potentially how many commercial clones are available on the market, be lucky to be only 5-6 here.

Goodness, SandHill Preservation alone has over two hundred I think and I'm guessing another 25, probably more, that I've read about that are not on their list.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-11-27, 03:19:44 PM
 :o never knew there were so many.

The weather this Nov has been crap, cloudy wet and cool, my small plants were just sitting doing nothing more than looking pretty, so ive put a hoophouse over them till this cloud clears away this weekend, so they will be enjoying some warmth today. The summer period starts next week so hopefully this current weather switches to something warmer
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-12-06, 12:37:25 PM
I'm finding this growing of Ipomoea batatas seed is really interesting in that there's like two groups of seed, one that germinates straight away as soon as it's sown, the other much later. Within the first group there's a few weak and slow growing seedlings which in my case which ended turning there toes up and dying. Then there's the seed that doesn't germinate straight away but sits there for a few months before doing so, I have two that have popped up in the last week or so, these are not weak seedlings at all, they had emerged from the soil and had opened out there leaves out dam near over night, i wonder if because they were in pots out in the sun a couple of warm days meant the soil reached a certain temperature triggering them to germinate.   
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2018-12-06, 04:37:56 PM
I'm finding this growing of Ipomoea batatas seed is really interesting in that there's like two groups of seed, one that germinates straight away as soon as it's sown, the other much later. Within the first group there's a few weak and slow growing seedlings which in my case which ended turning there toes up and dying. Then there's the seed that doesn't germinate straight away but sits there for a few months before doing so, I have two that have popped up in the last week or so, these are not weak seedlings at all, they had emerged from the soil and had opened out there leaves out dam near over night, i wonder if because they were in pots out in the sun a couple of warm days meant the soil reached a certain temperature triggering them to germinate.

I think the heat definitely plays a part. I often just sit the trays with un-sprouted seeds on the ground and forget them after planting the others. They dry out completely, sometimes more than once and right after a rain more sprout. I'v wondered if repeated wet dry cycle triggers sprouting some how. Plus of course, the weather is usually  really heating up by then.

The seeds you have though came from plants that sprouted early and under less than ideal conditions. I guess I am selecting for that cause if I plant 100 seeds I end up with more than plenty to fill my space and generally ignore those late sprouting ones.

The only late sprouters I pay much attention to are volunteers from seed that got lost the prior year. I find those very interesting. From what I understand they are tropical plants and they certainly do not need a cold period. Still they can lay in the ground over winter and volunteer, very, very interesting. the patch got away from me this past year and I'm sure I lost a lot of seeds, probably hundreds, I'll be on look out for volunteers next year for sure.

Some I sent seeds had much higher and faster germination and much higher % germination. I think that is because they used more controlled conditions, especially temperature.  I thought about upgrading my ability do that but decided not too. I like selecting for those that are not so picky. Eventually I want to do mine in unheated cold frame like I do tomatoes.

Actually I imagine the cold frame would work fine already if I waited another couple weeks from when I usually plant. I did a few that way this past spring but did it while it was still pretty cold and only got two or three and all of them, even they grew fine and large  were poor performers as far as root size and blooming go. 

I waste a lot of seeds and ever once in a while feel a little guilty for it, but I'm getting good results and good increase each year, so I get over it.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2018-12-06, 09:55:15 PM
I think in my case its more the temperature differences than soil moisture levels as none of the four pots that have the rest of the none germinated seed were transferred to have dried out not one bit, but being in pots they have likely to have got quite warm after a few lovely day lately, this after a long run of grey cloudy cool days, a typical spring here in New Zealand.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-01, 12:21:24 PM
After a cold start to summer the plants have started to grow well. Certainly quite a range of leaf colours, I really like the purple 

(https://i.ibb.co/19x198h/IMG-20190102-074014-resized-20190102-074528962.jpg) (https://ibb.co/55Vm5Bt)

(https://i.ibb.co/WV0D1B2/IMG-20190102-074021-resized-20190102-074510501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BnG4RTC)

(https://i.ibb.co/n8FfjbJ/IMG-20190102-074029-resized-20190102-074443233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4gHMp7r)

(https://i.ibb.co/tHyMPzN/IMG-20190102-074036-resized-20190102-074428962.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4FBZg2D)

(https://i.ibb.co/w6X29qp/IMG-20190102-074042-resized-20190102-074412187.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GPLrKDC)

(https://i.ibb.co/mSRW4NR/IMG-20190102-074059-resized-20190102-074342381.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9g07Bg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2019-01-01, 02:24:03 PM
Glad to see your seedlings have perked up with warmer weather. Have you noticed any flower buds? Many bloom at that size or even smaller. Here a lot of flowers, buds and young capsules abort during spells of cool cloudy weather so I suppose the same could have delayed it altogether. Bet you have some flowers soon if weather holds.

It was 67 F here yesterday with hard rain so I took my windowsill clones including some of the parent plants of your seeds out for a shower and drink, really perked them up too. I forgot the tags on the pots were just thin paper and cheap tape, noticed just in time to get them copied and replaced.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-01, 05:11:39 PM
I'll have a look this afternoon, they've had a good drink this morning as these dry hot winds off the mountains sucks the moisture from the garden, looks to be at least 10 days of warm weather. Might have to look to a netting fence for those that want to climb up something
.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-01, 06:14:19 PM
Could these be the first bubs, if they are they are only on the purple plant
(https://i.ibb.co/jZVVhtj/IMG-20190102-140732-resized-20190102-020943183.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2019-01-02, 01:56:59 AM
Could these be the first bubs, if they are they are only on the purple plant
(https://i.ibb.co/jZVVhtj/IMG-20190102-140732-resized-20190102-020943183.jpg)

Yep, I think so. That plant resembles the one I called Bushy Bloomer and some of your seeds came from it. If just that plant blooms by itself at first you'll have opportunity to test for self compatibility. I'm interested in identifying plants that have that but haven't figured a good way to do it yet because I grow too many in too small an area. Actually for now I'm more just interested in what % of them are self compatible. I already know some are.



Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-02, 09:54:19 AM
So I'll watch the flowers for bees an flies to see if any of the local insects do that pollinating
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-12, 03:18:00 PM
Another milestone achieved with the first flower open, this purple leaf plant has plenty of flowers to come along with five other plants that should be starting to open within a week. Three plants are showing no signs of flowers, there are also two plants inside, the last to germinate that are in the heat of the tunnelhouse look different to there outside cousins.

(https://i.ibb.co/0ZyJ1cH/001.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: reed on 2019-01-13, 04:23:11 AM
Yea, flowers! Any interested bugs show up yet? You should hand pollinate it and see if maybe it is self compatible. Will be interesting to see how the flowers themselves act in your weather.

Here they all bloom in the morning and fade by afternoon but there is variation. Some are already about open by dawn, some not till a couple hours later. On cloudy or cooler days they may stay open most of the day. This is addressed in some of the papers I'v found, they even talk about the time period where they are receptive to pollination but way too much trouble in my opinion to try document that for each one.

One important thing, if the style remains after the flower drops off then it is probably pollinated but not if the style also falls off.

And, I haven't tracked it exactly but seems like it takes a long time for a seed capsule to mature. Once you have some forming I'll post a picture of what a nicely formed one looks like.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-13, 09:52:32 AM
What you see in the photo was as much as it wanted to open for the rest of day yesterday, today we now have two cooler days coming up so will be interesting to see what effect that has on that flower and the two more that are very close to open.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-19, 04:49:28 AM
Richard, how are the babies doing? Any seed capsules developing? I'v been watching your temps some on the web and looks like mostly it's been a little on the cool side.  Sure hope you get some seeds or at least some roots big enough to store till next year and of course you can keep cuttings as house plants too if need be.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-19, 12:41:34 PM
At this stage its only Bushy Bloomer's cousin that's making flowers, the other plants are slowly coming on, another week and they should be close. I got the cotton bud out last evening and poked in and around the inside of one flower, there's only one flower at any one time. Do you need more than one flower? There are still three plants that are showing no sign of flowers, these are growing better than the ones with though, just want the others to start opening there flowers, then I can start to watch what bees come visiting. Photo taken this morning - the brown stuff is coffee grinds, the sorrows were dust bathing and covering the leafs in dust, found that this has stopped them.


Click on the photo for large view 

(https://i.ibb.co/qpH5RR1/IMG-20190120-082652.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2dzNjjK)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-19, 01:02:45 PM
This the red skin yellow flesh Kumara I posted earlier and was the one that I let get knocked by frost ( smack hand), I think that this clone shows its acclimatized to some degree because its growing twice as quick as the Camote seedlings. The same Kumara clone has been producing flowers for a guy I know up north which is rare and it only seems to be for him for some reason, I plan to send him some Camote cuttings and hopefully get some more crossing going


(https://i.ibb.co/Njw5j4h/IMG-20190120-082551-resized-20190120-083436018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/swLnwBS)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-19, 03:56:31 PM
Do you need more than one flower?

That's a good question. I have a single example that indicates only one flower is needed but I think it varies a lot. Some plants don't make seeds even if lots of other plants are blooming around them. Of course all the seeds you got came from nicely seedy plants so who knows. I think I included some 2018 seeds in your pack so you might even be a generation ahead of me on how they keep segregating.

If ya can get some crosses to your old more adapted varieties  it should unlock all kinds of new stuff.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-21, 10:44:05 AM
A bloke i know in the North Island has flowers on his purple/red skin Kumara which is very rare, lots of bumblebees have been visiting so he reckons, so who knows, maybe seed?
(https://i.ibb.co/xJn2WF0/IMG-2285.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RzXgfjm)

(https://i.ibb.co/nk5qZkW/IMG-2312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZTkRtTZ)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-21, 01:15:19 PM
Sure looks like it. Are all of his plants doing that or just some? Is his climate significantly different that yours?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-22, 11:26:24 AM
Only that one clone is flowering for him. From year to year the weather between us can very quite a bit, he's has had a warmer summer this time around he has missed getting that cloud off the sea that has effected me here more than normal.  This is where he grows - https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/Havelock+North/@-39.6652223,176.8162701,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x6d6834f7b0056bc9:0x500ef6143a2caa0!8m2!3d-39.6701993!4d176.8764496?hl=en&authuser=0
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2019-01-26, 05:36:58 PM
Hi Guys, I am the bloke with the flowering reds, in Havelock North.
Thanks for the invite here Richard.
Reed to answer your question, about 4 of 30 odd plants are flowering, mainly at the dryer (top of sloped garden), which I think got quite stressed whilst I was away for 3 weeks at the beach from 12/26 to 1/14. Noticed the flowers shortly after that. They are still popping up, but aborting so guess this clone is self infertile? Awaiting some 'mates' from Richard to see if we can throw some seed. Keep you posted.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-27, 01:15:49 AM
Great to see you on here Chris. The cuttings seem to have taken so they can go anytime.

Second bush now has flowers opening and another clone is developing flowers, Ive been out there with cotton buds transferring pollen as I'm not seeing bubble bees visiting the flower, but I think as the number of open flowers increase maybe that will draw them in.  It leaves only two clones outside with no flowers and the two inside the tunnelhouse, the heat wave is week will do wonders for growth
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-27, 03:40:34 AM
Great to see you on here Chris. The cuttings seem to have taken so they can go anytime.

Second bush now has flowers opening and another clone is developing flowers, Ive been out there with cotton buds transferring pollen as I'm not seeing bubble bees visiting the flower, but I think as the number of open flowers increase maybe that will draw them in.  It leaves only two clones outside with no flowers and the two inside the tunnelhouse, the heat wave is week will do wonders for growth

Richard, do you mean seed grown plants, rather than clones?  Or do you mean you also have some flowers developing on your local ones?

Are the two of you trying to exchange cuttings from your flowering plants? They are very easy to start from cuttings and a stem from a plant in flower does not stop just because you cut it off and root it. Should be pretty easy assuming there is still enough time in your warm season. Even if not a plant or even just a cutting with developing capsules will finish up nicely inside.

Welcome to the party Chris!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-27, 10:04:39 AM
opps sorry, must better explain. Another of the seed grown clones is starting to produce wee flower buds, just leaves two with no flower buds.

Ive taken cuttings from all the seed grown plants, some even have small buds too, so it would be great if Chris could get open flowers side by side with the Kumara flowers.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-28, 04:46:46 PM
This week could be considered the peak of summer, had two days 30 and 31C - 86F deg, today a little cooler, next day days forecast to be 33C- 91F and 35 95. So plenty of warmth to help flowering, I sat and watched three open flowers two on BB's cousin, which has a amazing number of coming on buds, and one on the plant that least enjoyed the cold start to summer, and is the smallest. There are pumpkins to the right of the bucket, Camote to the left, flowering Skirret flowering further along and poppies in the front, but despite the huge number of bubble bees all around they are showing no sign of interest in the Camote. No/little honey bees around the garden ive noticed, I think I'm going to get a hive of my own.

I can see that there is going to be a period of acclimatization as they have not gone in to rapid growth like they have done for you reed, I think these clones will do a lot better next year as I will winter over all of them so there for I will have a much bigger plant come spring. The Kumara clone I have has done better each year, wish it would bloody flower though.

Photo is linked of storage site so you can click on photo.

Chris- had a look at the cuttings and no roots so ive put some rotting hormone, going to take a bit longer before I can get these to you

(https://i.ibb.co/NtphZHk/001.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-29, 07:02:41 AM
This week could be considered the peak of summer, had two days 30 and 31C - 86F deg, today a little cooler, next day days forecast to be 33C- 91F and 35 95. So plenty of warmth to help flowering, I sat and watched three open flowers two on BB's cousin, which has a amazing number of coming on buds, and one on the plant that least enjoyed the cold start to summer, and is the smallest. There are pumpkins to the right of the bucket, Camote to the left, flowering Skirret flowering further along and poppies in the front, but despite the huge number of bubble bees all around they are showing no sign of interest in the Camote. No/little honey bees around the garden ive noticed, I think I'm going to get a hive of my own.

I can see that there is going to be a period of acclimatization as they have not gone in to rapid growth like they have done for you reed, I think these clones will do a lot better next year as I will winter over all of them so there for I will have a much bigger plant come spring. The Kumara clone I have has done better each year, wish it would bloody flower though.

Photo is linked of storage site so you can click on photo.

Chris- had a look at the cuttings and no roots so ive put some rotting hormone, going to take a bit longer before I can get these to you


Richard, BBs cousin is probably actually BBs descendant. Good to see the heavy blooming is carrying through another generation. Your also confirming what we already knew, that they don't like cold. But they are hanging on so it's encouraging that they might be adaptable too it. I barely know what epigenics is but from what I can gather it sounds like it might offer some hope for cold adaption.

Interesting too that some are doing better than others. Does that appear related to color to you? Mine that as I keep on the cold drafty windowsill always look a a bit distressed this time of year but those with purple leaves look best and resume growth first the next spring. 
Maybe cause of your weather it's different but here nothing is needed to help with rooting cuttings, just stick a stem in the dirt, root or not and in a few days it's growing.

Are you fellows trading cones so you both have both flowering types?

Sounds like you need to have talk with your bumblebees, they are by far the best pollinators here. At first they were the only ones but last year I saw other critters too. I had no idea that various insects had to adapt to a new flower, I just figured a flower was a flower too them.


 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 10:11:59 AM
Richard, BBs cousin is probably actually BBs descendant. Good to see the heavy blooming is carrying through another generation. Your also confirming what we already knew, that they don't like cold. But they are hanging on so it's encouraging that they might be adaptable too it. I barely know what epigenics is but from what I can gather it sounds like it might offer some hope for cold adaption.

I used the term 'cousin' generically specking.  These will do a lot better next summer I feel.
Interesting too that some are doing better than others. Does that appear related to color to you? Mine that as I keep on the cold drafty windowsill always look a a bit distressed this time of year but those with purple leaves look best and resume growth first the next spring.


No there is no connection to leaf colour, I'll get some update photos during day and you'll see what's what.
Maybe cause of your weather it's different but here nothing is needed to help with rooting cuttings, just stick a stem in the dirt, root or not and in a few days it's growing.

That makes this more strange, the weather the last few weeks has been well and truly warm enough to get cuttings growing. Ive put a few small stones on some growth stems to maybe get some roots, then i could snip off after

Are you fellows trading cones so you both have both flowering types?


That's a good idea, Chris - your flowering clone might for flower here as well, could I at some stage get a cutting?. Boy am I going to have a house full of clones this winter  ;D

Sounds like you need to have talk with your bumblebees, they are by far the best pollinators here. At first they were the only ones but last year I saw other critters too. I had no idea that various insects had to adapt to a new flower, I just figured a flower was a flower too them.


 

That's what I'm thinking, its like flower recognition is past down through bubble bee generations, I wonder if I could draw them over 2 metres from the pumpkins with some small pieces of yellow cardboard,could be worth a go? Didn't see any flies going to the flower either.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2019-01-29, 07:12:59 PM
Richard - get up at sparrows fart to monitor bee activity, or set up a go pro? I think you will find more activity than you think.
As for cuttings, no problem, just need instructions on when and how. Any point sending to you now to try and get a set pre autumn?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 07:37:27 PM
Do you reckon you could get a flowering stem rooted straight away, I know the Kumara I have is good at growing roots not far from the tip.

Ok up at sparrows fart it is
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 09:29:16 PM
This plant is one of the latest to start flowering, has a good number to come on (https://i.ibb.co/L9KcdVG/001.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 09:31:35 PM
This plant has grown better and has flowers yet to start opening, its marked because this was the first seed to germinate   (https://i.ibb.co/6H9yDbM/002.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 09:34:08 PM
This seeding is the smallest but second to open a flower, it didnt like the cool early summer (https://i.ibb.co/Mgp84ZT/003.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 09:36:24 PM
This one is growing well but is one of two of the outside clones with no sign of flowers (https://i.ibb.co/1fK2rDG/004.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-29, 09:39:43 PM
BB's cousin - my favourite, truck loads of flower buds coming on (https://i.ibb.co/MPwft1V/005.jpg)

This clone is the other clone not to flower, but is growing very well.
(https://i.ibb.co/vdnFfpK/006.jpg)

Last one- moderate grower third to open a flower
(https://i.ibb.co/n1HPyrh/007.jpg)

And the two inside clones, no flowers but super charged growth, these were the two that germinated once the weather warmed and were outside.

(https://i.ibb.co/rb6Pt2v/008.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-30, 01:50:38 PM
This morning at 'sparrow fart' a bubble bee were seen flying about and down into the flowers, great news, I'm sure now news will be spreading amoung its colleges.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2019-01-30, 04:11:54 PM
Nice one Richard!
I sacrificed one flowering runner today to pot up about 18 cuttings, 3 with own roots, others showing some rootlets. Covered with plastic bags to retain moisture. Fingers crossed. Pics too large to post here, apparently :(
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-30, 11:12:01 PM
The way the bubble bee was flying it was like, 'oh whats this flower? did a fly by first then went back for a closer look. I'm still using the cotton bud two of three times a day though, now I'm getting more flowers I think my chances of seed should be increasing.

Fingers crossed Chris :)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-01-31, 07:05:29 AM
It should be pretty easy to tell if pollination has occurred as the style is still there after the rest of the flower drops off. Not in good focus but like the recently pollinated one top right in the picture. It's even still there as a little point on the mature capsules. If the flower is completely gone like the one in middle it either wasn't pollinated or it aborted.

Plants like the BB family that have many flowers per peduncle make more seeds over all but also have a much higher rate of aborted ones. I'm starting to prefer those with just two or three flowers per. They are generally larger vines with longer internodes, they have many fewer abortions and much higher % of capsules have a full four seeds and seeds are larger. The longer space between also makes the capsules easier to find and these seeds tend to sprout faster and stronger at cooler temperatures.  BB related are still the ones that I think have the ability to unlock flowering in other clones assuming you can coax a few flowers on the others to get the initial crosses.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-31, 10:37:28 AM
I noticed a style yesterday from a flower that fall off a week ago, its purple in colour where that one in your photo reed is quite green, i was thinking at the time could be the start of a seed capsule.(https://i.ibb.co/VSJcsCT/002.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-31, 12:22:31 PM
The number of flowers this morning seen on this clone is pleasing, its the one tagged because it was my first germinated seed, strong seed and strong flower grower outside of the BB type. (https://i.ibb.co/vY4hG4J/003.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-01-31, 12:27:52 PM
reed - is that photo of grandad BB?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Raymondo on 2019-01-31, 02:15:17 PM
Itís great to see sweet potato being worked on. They are not an easy crop here. Even though the summers can be pretty warm (the current one has had plenty of days in the mid 30s, around 95F), itís not usually long enough to get decent tubers, at least for the yellow and orange fleshed cultivars. The white fleshed ones do better but I donít like them as much.
Following with interest.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-01, 01:26:51 AM
reed - is that photo of grandad BB?
The bushy, purple one looks most like the one I called BB. The original BB only had stringy roots, I dropped it when two more very similar ones showed up with much better roots. They are both white with purple skin. The generation of your seeds is the same as that that produced the improved BB(s) so fingers crossed that plant will have good roots.

Your green ones look most likely to have the orange/orange roots that I like best. I'm waiting anxiously to see what roots you end up with. Your one picture definitely looks like you've had some pollination going on.

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-01, 01:43:13 AM
Quote
Your one picture definitely looks like you've had some pollination going on.
And that was when there was only the one clone with a flower and one flower only, so does that mean that 'BB cuzzie' is self compatible
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-01, 01:51:08 AM
Ray - your frost free season is about the same as mine and going by the two in my tunnelhouse where every day would be 45degC or more I'm sure there would be some seed grown clones that would do well for you. Yesterday we topped out at 38C deg outside, inside would have been getting high 40's yet they showed no sign of stress, they are very tough.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-01, 02:31:11 AM
And that was when there was only the one clone with a flower and one flower only, so does that mean that 'BB cuzzie' is self compatible

Sure sounds like it, I knew some were self compatible. I'd kinda like to know for sure which in my collection are but so far it's been more trouble than it's worth to do all the isolation and hand pollinating to find out. I have theory that some are only compatible with some other particular one and maybe even in one specific direction but that is way over my ability to figure out unless I devote most of my space and time to just sweet potatoes and I can't do that.

They are very tough when it comes to heat and very tolerant of dry spells. Purple ones especially will wilt in hot afternoon sun but doesn't seem to hurt them at all. Dry spells don't bother them either.

That said, they also seem perfectly happy in some shade. I think I figured being tropical and liking heat meant they need full sun but then I realized just cause they are tropical doesn't mean they have to have full sun. There are probably lots of shade loving tropical plants. I think a general rule might be hot climate, some shade is OK, cool climate, more sun but here they do fine either way. Good sized roots maturing in short season is the most important thing to work on, I think. Well' besides producing seeds.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Raymondo on 2019-02-01, 03:13:07 AM
Ray - your frost free season is about the same as mine and going by the two in my tunnelhouse where every day would be 45degC or more I'm sure there would be some seed grown clones that would do well for you. Yesterday we topped out at 38C deg outside, inside would have been getting high 40's yet they showed no sign of stress, they are very tough.
I should try to convince my son to grow a few different ones and see if we can get some viable seed. They almost always flower in his garden but heís never taken any notice. At worst, he gets a load of sweet potatoes to eat!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-03, 12:13:59 AM
Just a case of whither or not they are capable of setting seed Ray. Love to see you have a go.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: gmuller on 2019-02-08, 04:37:17 AM
I've got a purchased plant in a pot that I must put out in the ground. I grew a plant a few years ago with some success. Can't wait to retire and really get to work :)
GM
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-08, 09:52:47 AM
I've got a purchased plant in a pot that I must put out in the ground. I grew a plant a few years ago with some success. Can't wait to retire and really get to work :)
GM

What are the importation requirements for Ipomoea batatas into Australia?

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Raymondo on 2019-02-08, 12:58:15 PM
What are the importation requirements for Ipomoea batatas into Australia?
Tubers can only be imported at great cost. Seed imports are not mentioned which means by default they are prohibited entry.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-08, 02:40:01 PM
Tubers can only be imported at great cost. Seed imports are not mentioned which means by default they are prohibited entry.

That's a real bugger. Just hope the clones you already have i oz are not like the NZ Kumara clones and you are able to get some pollination.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-12, 03:45:21 AM
Richard, are the seed capsules filling out good? 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-12, 11:33:21 AM
Bbcuzzie as it will be called is an interesting plant, the first flowers grew on stems that only had one to three flowers, these early stems went dry and fall off. but now the plant is growing up to 12 flower buds per stem, talking with Chris about this yesterday, I think having each individual stem that is able to grow younger flowers well after the first ones have done there thing should help keep that stem alive allowing the first seed pods to grow. Bubbles bees love Bbcuzzie but I'm noticing that once they have done the rounds they fly off and not go to the other Camote plants as the flowers on them are sparse. Thinking that if I dont manage seed this summer and seeing Bbcuzzie is the premier flower producer next summer I should plant cuttings from it and intersperse them in between the other clone cuttings, but its a matter of seeing how this summer goes first.

(https://i.ibb.co/wysGTtJ/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H7dw0ZN)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-12, 11:37:39 AM
... also Chris now has some well developed rooted cuttings, so hopefully he can get some crossing with his Kumara clone.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-13, 04:16:10 AM
Bbcuzzie has the look of those that have about a 50/50 chance of having good roots but it's OK if it doesn't cause it also has the look of those that I think have the ability to unlock seediness in those it crosses with. I'm glad it has heart shaped leaves instead of lobed cause I think that means it descended from a cross rather than a selfed seed. If so that means it's seeds might segregate into all kinds of things.

The picture looks like lots of flowers are getting pollinated, are you of a mind that they are being selfed rather than crossed to the others? I'v noticed the bees tend to visit each flower only once. Apparently they can tell some how, they will buzz close to a flower but move on without landing if another bee has already been there.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-13, 10:45:14 AM
The one bubble bee I was watching yesterday was going back over flowers it had already been to, but it was the speed in which it was darting between flowers, it was like the bubble bee was having a race, but not spending much time inside each flower

Plant #6 has also reached the stage where its putting out 10+ flower bud stem, so at least some of my plants are now reaching the full on flowering stage.

I look back to the photos I post here 14 days ago and man there's been some growth since then, its been quite a run of hot weather this month. That link you sent me reed-  ventusky.com its been a few degrees lower most days than what the temps have been, there's been a lots of days around the 30C mark.

Your thoughts on Bbcuzzie are pleasing to know, its a must grow for wintering over as a cutting, but no point growing cuttings from the two that are not flowering
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-13, 02:06:43 PM
I just noticed all my plants have heart shaped leaves
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2019-02-13, 08:41:22 PM
The Bbcuzzie that arrived here 2 days ago is about to flower, and should co-incide nicely with 2 multi-flowered 'hydras' on my Reds. So... the mating begins... hopefully! https://ibb.co/bgwb3vP
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-13, 09:39:28 PM
They look good Chris.

Ive got the water sprinklers currently in the area where my Camote are which tends to full the flowers with water, still wont get the bubble bees away though, they are still diving in and out of the flowers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-14, 02:18:17 AM
Sounds like you fellers might be on the way to some new kinds of sweet potatoes.  Good your plants have heart shape leaves as they have highest % of good big roots.

Plants from these seeds that don't flower at all are pretty rare, I think I might still keep them and give them another chance as clones next year, especially if they turn out with nice roots. Flowering is certainly genetic but I think environmental conditions can also play a role, but I don't have enough experience and they are way too screwy genetically to say for sure about much of anything.

Also they tend to mutate in first few generations of cloning after starting a new one from seed. I have only seen it happen once so far but research I found said it is pretty common. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-14, 10:35:56 AM
Yes I should and will keep the two non- flowering clones going, then there's the two indoor ones as well.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2019-02-15, 02:28:29 PM
Waiting for my Owairaka Reds to sync with Bbcuzzie - not long now
https://ibb.co/RgMd3Ck
https://ibb.co/mX5n6rt
https://ibb.co/D5FK5Q4
https://ibb.co/yRLsFgL
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-15, 02:35:27 PM
So, seed pods on the Kumara is a goal
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-22, 12:52:40 PM
Still no seed pods developing. I do think that this summer is about getting these clones established and use to growing in a totally different climate, soil etc and then look to having cuttings taken before winter, kept in the house and planted out in spring meaning I will be so much further ahead than this summer, if I could have flowers open in early summer I reckon that will be better than reaching full flowering now in late summer. The daylight hours are getting shorter, even though the days are still warm the growth rate of everything is the garden has slowed a lot, the flowering of Bbcuzzie is in top gear (20 open flowers counted yesterday) but only the odd one on the rest and it seems the bubble bees only head for the flower cluster of Bbcuzzie and then bugger off. If next summer the Camote clones can do as well as this summers Kamara clones have done I'm confident one of us will get seed, just a matter of keep going and being patient 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-02-22, 01:16:18 PM
Yea, having a head start next year with clones of those plants should help. From your pictures I think you had pollination but I do think they need warm dry weather to finish up. Here lots of developing pods abort during cool wet spells. Don't rule out though that you can finish seeds up inside if you get some developing later. All you need is a warm sunny windowsill, just chop the stems off the plants and stick them in water. Or pot them in soil to root and save as houseplants. I'm anxious to see if you have any good sized roots. If so of course, you can save them to make slips next year.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-02-25, 11:41:07 AM
Chris sent me this link https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/garden/93034036/king-of-kumara?fbclid=IwAR05bQOcwYKMXDhCAuwbyNKa9lsA4Ky4YH_M2F6sKznZtSizAfLYC_XFtT8 Okinawa. It flowers also and is here in NZ already, Chris say he has a mate who got it and is going to give him some, it will be a great addition to the mix.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-01, 12:29:00 PM
Now have the second to last outside plant forming flowers, not looking like the last one will but its been the best growing seedling. Another month and I'll be digging up and seeing whats underneath them as well as taking cuttings to share around

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-03, 06:33:20 AM
The Okinawa is available here from several sources and the pictures look like it is the same as in your link. I'v got it on my list as a possible one to add to my mix. I hate spending lots of money buying slips, knowing that most of them will likely not bloom.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-03, 09:35:24 PM
Okinawa clearly doesn't self pollinate.

Its still too early to properly tell yet but clone #7 looks like it may have seed pods developing, but I only say may
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-04, 08:44:03 AM
I broke down and ordered some Okinawa and I have a couple other new ones from the grocery store but thy might just be the same although they are slightly different color and they both might be Beauregard.  Probably will order at least four more. Probably gonna have 100 bucks or more into it before I'm done. It's OK if they are not self compatible, I don't expect them to be but I'll be real disappointed if I shell out money on any that don't bloom.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-12, 06:43:10 PM
Another seedling showed in a pot, that makes 10 clones now, meaning there's going to be 12 plants to winterover in the house.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-13, 06:25:16 AM
Wow, I know they take awhile to sprout sometimes. When will you be digging to see what kind of roots you got? 
I'm only about a month out from getting mine going for this year. The windowsill house plants have started growing a little faster recently and the saved roots are looking good, couple have small sprouts already. Not sure that is necessarily a good thing but it is probably due to poor storage conditions.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-13, 11:35:46 AM
 So in what way do you mean 'poor storage conditions'.

I dont want to dig just yet as ive only just put soil over heaps of stems, so maybe a month yet, did quite a few cuttings yesterday from sections that did have roots.
Wouldn't think the tubers would be growing much now the days are cooling.
Ive had a wee poke away and I know Bbcuzzie is a dark red tuber.

oh and one of the two clones in the tunnelhouse is now getting flowers, both these two have done so well in the indoor heat
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-13, 01:36:51 PM
"So in what way do you mean 'poor storage conditions".


Well, I don't rightly know. There is lots of advice to be had on how to store them, some is very specific as to temp and humidity. Some says root cellars environment is good, some say they like it warm.  My house isn't consistent for temp or humidity either one, humidity especially can get very low when it's cold and the wood stove is in use. I take the general position that I can't be too bothered by the precise likes of any particular crop, it has to adapt to me more or less or I give it up and move on.

That said, I am trying to figure out what they like for storage. Those put away to eat are in a long bin under the kitchen windows and some more in trays under it. They are just in cardboard boxes or trays and not sealed up so they are exposed intermittently to the cold drafts off the window and hotter temps, again when the wood stove is burning.

Some more are in stone jars in the largely unheated spare room upstairs.

The ones I want for cloning are in a box in a drawer in the bath room with my underwear and socks. This is the warmest and most constant place in the house. Interestingly these are the ones that are sprouting a little prematurely. They are just little sprouts so I'm not worried about it but roots of the same varieties in the other places are not doing it.

So, since I want them to adapt to me, storage under conditions that may generally be considered poor is part of that but this fall I'll probably put my favorites in one of the other places. I guess I'm suggesting not to worry too much over what they want, just give em what you got and let em make the best of it. ;D

(add) O' except anything close to freezing or even refrigerated, pretty sure they don't like that.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2019-03-13, 01:56:50 PM

I am also selecting sweet potatoes for storage under conditions which are available to me. Which means inside a closed cardboard box in an unheated (above 60 F) bedroom.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Lauren on 2019-03-18, 09:09:34 AM

The ones I want for cloning are in a box in a drawer in the bath room with my underwear and socks. This is the warmest and most constant place in the house. Interestingly these are the ones that are sprouting a little prematurely. They are just little sprouts so I'm not worried about it but roots of the same varieties in the other places are not doing it.
I'm guessing it's the humidity in the bathroom. Mine are in a closed cupboard in the kitchen and they were fine all winter. Taken out and exposed to humidity (no difference in heat) they started to sprout.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-18, 01:22:52 PM
It is also more consistently warm in the bath room but I also suspect the humidity is what encouraged sprouting. I think overall they are very forgiving of varied conditions. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-18, 02:15:23 PM
Ive still to nut out where I'm going to store mine yet.  Pulled one of my Kumara plants a few days ago, had one good root, wont be pulling the Camotes for a few weeks yet till there's heaps of roots for cuttings. Noticed too that they are good at growing roots above ground, one the Camote plant in the tunnelhouse has roots half a metre above the ground.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-20, 03:35:11 AM
I don't know of anything that is easier to sprout, any growing tip 3 - 4 inches long can just be chopped off and rooted. It's just speculation but I bet if the weather has cooled to where above ground growth has slowed the roots probably are't growing either. You can also dig the plants, remove the big storage roots and pot up or replant the whole thing.

By waiting to harvest you may be on the way to answering a question I have. That is, is there a point where a root is past mature? I mean is there a point it is good to eat or store after which it gets woody, or pithy or starts sprouting new shoots or something? I suspect that might be the case but I haven't done the experiments to see for sure.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-20, 02:18:20 PM
Harvest time should really be way there's no more growth happening which is pretty much now. So they are not like a potato where I can leave them in the ground over winter and be dug anytime and still will be fine?.

Noticed with the outside clones that all but three plants have stopped producing flowers, but three are still going for it, this would be a good trait to select from would it not. I will note this so cuttings from these are plants are then spaced close together for next summer.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-20, 04:34:20 PM
O'no not at all like potatoes. I think in tropical climate they are actually perennial but if it gets anyway near freezing I imagine they would ruin and croak, even if mulched. I don't know that for sure though. I'v sure of it here though, it gets way too cold. They also can't be stored cold, like in refrigerator, ruins the flavor and texture.  Just put em in a box and shove em under the bed or something. I have had a few get wrinkled or dry in storage but only ones I ever had rot were some the woman put in a plastic bag.

I'm really just guessing also that root growth stops as foliage growth does, just kind of makes sense. Another way they are different from potatoes, a sweet potato is actually a root rather than a tuber or at least I think that is so. The roots, assuming you got some nice sized ones and I hope you did will keep inside for months during which you can eat some whenever you want and save back a few to start new plants from the next spring.

If they only made stringy roots but you want to keep them because of blooming ability you have to keep cuttings as house plants. If you have warm sunny window you might even still get seeds this year by taking cuttings from the ones still blooming inside and hand pollinating.  I about always get a few more seeds inside in the fall. Even ones that make crappy, stringy roots are good to keep as they might be the ones that cross to your local ones.

Once you have that cross all kinds of interesting new ones will start popping up!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Mike Jennings on 2019-03-20, 10:14:41 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jVLRwpy/q2po-Turq-S3-Cf-MQm-G02-OSBA.jpg)
These are the 2 seed-grown roots I have decided to keep and grow again this year. They both have white flesh, are viney, and made plenty of seeds. I also really liked some of the bush plants, and they made the most seeds by far, but the few that I grew didn't produce substantial enough roots to warrant growing again.

At final count (estimated) I got about 1200 seeds. Roughly half of those came from just a few bushy plants. I have a very long, warm growing season in CA and I let the sweet potatoes keep ripening seeds right up until frost killed the vines (about mid-November). Most of the seeds I produced are descended from seeds that Reed shared with me, but I also got a few seeds from some purple-fleshed and orange-fleshed heirlooms as well. I'm planning to grow at least twice as many sweet potatoes this year, so I should have lots of seeds to share next winter.

I am primarily interested in sweet potatoes with colored flesh, but I have to say that I kind of enjoy how the white fleshed ones cook up a bit more firm, whereas the orange or purple ones seem to get more mushy. I wonder if those trait are linked tightly, or could I get an orange fleshed one that is more firm?

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-20, 11:04:47 PM
I'm certainly chomping at the bit to dug them up, I know one plant has a big root right below the stem.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-22, 02:34:23 PM
Dug all the outside plants yesterday.

Starting with plant # one, poor flowering, reasonable amount of top grow which produced a red long tapered root which is white inside
(https://i.ibb.co/nP9qSvF/one.jpg)





#two was much the same as #one but slightly lighter skin colour, this was my fastest germination seedling
(https://i.ibb.co/WgKq3Lw/two.jpg)







#three - This was one of three that became very good flowering clones and still had flowers when dug up, it was though not the hardiest with the late spring cold, the root very small and white.

(https://i.ibb.co/zssCHsF/three.jpg)







#four produced a orange skin and flesh long tapered root, poor flowerer.

(https://i.ibb.co/nccP273/four.jpg)






#five produced no flowers, lots of growth and a ok sized dark red skim white inside tuber.

(https://i.ibb.co/HqZq1d9/five.jpg)






# six was a poor flowering and small amount of top growth, but the best tuber grower of all, right below the stem too.

(https://i.ibb.co/GtGgLx5/six.jpg)






#seven at the end became a top flower producer but root was disappointing, dark red and white inside.

(https://i.ibb.co/Zx8sFdT/seven.jpg)





Didnt bother with a photo of Bbcuzzie as there was no tubers at all, just roots that seemed like they were heading to Australia. This just leaves the two clones that are still doing well in the heat of the tunnelhouse. So all the outside plants have had lots a cuttings taken for next summer, I feel I'll see far better results next then by having plants flowering much earlier than this summer, Bbcuzzie started flowering mid summer but the other two good flowering plants didn't really start till after the main heat period.
So look forward now to next summer where there will be also a few other gardeners besides myself growing these clones around NZ.


   
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-03-23, 04:14:05 AM
I really like the look of #6 and sounds like it might have the clump root trait I like. Those in Mike's picture have nice shape, I like the sort of bulbous ones, they are easy to dig. The white one is interesting. I'v had two or three white ones show up but didn't keep them cause they were not very good bloomers and roots were puny. Too bad cause they tasted very good. I do have one saved from last year that is the first white one to make a larger root and it was a better bloomer. It isn't really as large as should be but it has stored fine so I'll probably start a couple from it.

I'v also discarded some all purple ones for same reasons, plus the purple are the only ones I'v seen so far that had any disease or bug issues in the roots.

Shows how diverse they are I guess cause neither of those were in the original parents. Richard, did you not get any seeds this year?

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-03-23, 12:42:03 PM
No, no seed, I think its just down to timing, the bulk of the flowering kicked off as the heat started to wane. Like I said, I think I will see a big difference next summer.

Its good to know that the white rooted clones you've had taste good, at least my one was a good bloomer, so I'm pleased. But no purples, though it doesn't sound like I'm missing out on much.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-05-06, 02:54:51 PM
Two weeks ago I tipped out the pots that I was growing the cuttings in, gave some away and then took the best single cuttings of each clone for re-potting, given them good sized pots so they have plenty of room to get through to spring. These have only just gone into the tunnelhouse and will be enjoying the warmth against the north facing wall that's still warm from summer, when if winter arrives they can be shifted inside the house. 



(https://i.ibb.co/P6jD03x/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tg2Wdpc)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-05-07, 02:22:34 AM
They are pretty easy to keep over winter like that, don't really need much space. I keep mine in pots no bigger than a large plastic drinking cup, that way they don't take up too much room and I don't catch too much grief for gardening in the kitchen all winter. A good south or I guess in your case north facing window is all ya need. I keep them on the dry side too, even with good light and warm it's easy to get rot if they are too wet.

If your tunnel house stays above 10 all the time they will be fine, but will get pretty poorly looking below that.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-05-07, 03:43:44 AM
Its only a single skin plastic so it gets close to freezing when it like -5-6degC outside, they dont like that sorta cold. BBcuzzie is still producing flower buds which I reckon it might carry on through winter. And we have eaten a few tubers too which have been very nice tasting.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Steve1 on 2019-05-10, 04:32:08 PM
Hi All,
Well done Richard and Reed.
For the Australians (Gregg, Raymondo and others as well) who are sweet potato cultivar poor and want to have a go, send me a PM. A mate has been collecting them for a number of years. Some he got from the Queensland sweet potato repository. I'm going to hit him up for samples of as many as I can get, he grows large amounts - so I should be able to sort small tubers without any problems. He's keen for some people to work on this too.
I did have a crack at some hand pollinations 3 or 4 years ago on some of his varieties, but it was in Autumn and was likely to cold and wet and I had no success. I was playing with 3 or 4 CV's at that time.
I'm going to get cracking on this come summer too now I have space.

Cheers
Steve

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-05-28, 12:06:38 AM
 It sounds promising that you have had flowers in the past Steve.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Steve1 on 2019-05-28, 05:07:40 AM
It sounds promising that you have had flowers in the past Steve.

Yes, there were three varieties flowering simulatanously when I had a crack three or four years ago. The main problem was it was June/July when I got to attempted pollinations. Probably too cold. The plants were in 6 inch pots and had been neglected for a few years and potbound. Of the three varieties, something like 8/12 plants were in flower. Its a hunch that when the plants get pot bound and neglected (no fertilizer) they direct energy to flowering.
One of the lines flowers mid winter from slips in a heated glasshouse.
I reckon there is almost certainly enough genetic variation in his lines for seed.
Offer still stands for those Aussies wanting some germplasm. I dont think I can send them across the ditch?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-05-28, 07:23:09 AM
The plants were in 6 inch pots and had been neglected for a few years and potbound. Of the three varieties, something like 8/12 plants were in flower.
The plants were growing in the same pots for years??

Its a hunch that when the plants get pot bound and neglected (no fertilizer) they direct energy to flowering.
I'v found literature that supports that and that other stresses such as drought might also induce flowering but I can't confirm it. I did grow a usually non flowering type hydroponically one time and it bloomed like crazy but made no seeds.

I reckon there is almost certainly enough genetic variation in his lines for seed.
I'v found there is a lot of diversity, even in the offspring from self pollination. Contrary to generally accepted thought on that, I'v confirmed that some are indeed self fertile.

I don't have any to spare right now but out of curiosity, can you import seeds?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-05-28, 12:07:21 PM
I dont think I can send them across the ditch?


No not tubers, but seed from Oz would be ok coming this way, pity it cant go the other way though. Shame really but your seed restrictions are way over the top.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Steve1 on 2019-06-10, 07:33:40 AM
Hi Reed,
Yes, years in the same pots. These were extras planned to be planted out somewhere I imagine, but for whatever reason sat there in the tunnel until the poor plants were completely potbound. These were not drought stressed as they were irrigated regularly. There is only a frost every few years here, and these were more than happy overwintering in the tunnel. Actually, they overwinter in the ground ok here too, except the rodents get into them. 

I don't think seed import will be feasible, but have asked the question.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-10, 01:43:48 PM
Are your pots on some sort of drip watering Steve?

Sad news, the last seeding that popped up 6 months after all the rest turned its toes up and died, it was never a strong seedling anyway. As for the rest of the clones, they are still happy enough in the tunnelhouse as the weather has not been overly cold yet.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-15, 08:01:12 PM
Its reached the stage where two plants are going inside the house for the rest of winter, looking quite yellow. One was a cutting off one of two that spent the summer in the tunnelhouse, the other was a non flowering outside clone (#4). Mean while the remainder are looking fine, some even growing new leaves, and Bbcuzzie still has flower buds
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-06-16, 07:56:17 AM
Environment in our house is not at all friendly to sweet potatoes and we have long periods of little to no sunshine in winter.  My plants can look pretty bad by spring but only thing I'v done that actually killed one was keeping them too wet.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-16, 01:40:03 PM
They are behind some north facing windows which get plenty of light, I would think that maybe 75% of our winter days are sunny, half those days would be frosty while the remainder are foehn wind westerly's. Our house is a lot warmer than last winter thanks to a new hot water radiator running off the wood stove, yet the three Kumara plants I had inside last year still managed to grow quite well, so these two 'soft' clones I have inside will come away again I reckon. Interesting though that there is clearly better cold tolerance in some, but then #3 last spring wasn't doing well when the weather was cool/cloudy yet is looking good now, so buggered if I know  :-\
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-21, 11:00:54 PM
Compared to the NZ Kumara clone some the Camote clones are incredibly soft, even inside where I would consider it warm enough some have died, thankfully some seem ok and have been brought inside, cant loose these ones otherwise I will be gutted
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-06-22, 01:28:42 AM
Incredibly soft? Do you mean very intolerant of cold?

It surprises me a little but I'v seen considerable variation in how they react to cold as well as how they act as house plants. Some stay alive and little more while some keep growing a little. My plants outside this year are variable in how they are responding to the cool wet weather we're having. Some growing almost normally and some not much at all.

 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-22, 03:17:33 PM
I'm wondering if its the short daylight hours because its not cold inside the house.

Bbcuzzie looking rather sad
(https://i.ibb.co/ZdCL2LR/IMG-20190623-090952-resized-20190623-091024327.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxzVTVg)

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-28, 11:28:16 PM
I'm down to only 4 plants alive now, but these do look fine and should make spring.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-06-29, 04:26:09 AM
I looked up your latitude, about 40 degrees, mine is about 38 degrees and we also have long periods of clouds on top of it, so I don't think day length is the problem. My plants that over wintered and that I cloned to set out this spring are still growing in the pots I put them in last fall.
 
When you brought them in did you dig up and plant in the pots? When I plant mine to take in each fall I just take cuttings and put them in small, 3 - 4 inch pots or even just plastic drinking cups. I just wonder if being in the larger pots tends to hold more moisture, rot is the only thing I'v ever lost one to. In the little pots or cups it's easy to let them get really dry between watering.
 
Anyway, sounds like you might need some more seeds. I save the very first maturing seeds separate in case they have some tendency for fast maturity or more tolerance to cooler temps.  I sent those to Joseph last year, I'll set some aside for you this year.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-06-29, 02:06:28 PM
Thanks reed, most kind of you.

Ive made sure the pots are quite dry which was something you mentioned a while back being important, they are not rotting as the stems look fine, the dying from the leafs down. My latitude is 42.5 degrees, I am sure the daylight hours that is the reason why some have kicked the bucket as the inside temp is not getting below 14C at night inside.

At the end of the day there are some clones that are looking good, wonder if it would help them if i stuck up a poster of a tropical beach instead them having to look out at frost  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/wWxr4sV/IMG-20190630-075620-resized-20190630-075718142.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTBFJVN)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-07-08, 03:38:44 PM
I think now that the survivors will see out the winter

 Bbcuzzie is starting to gain new leaves
(https://i.ibb.co/5G2wkg1/003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQ7DFM6)

# 7 and # 9 never even looked like they was struggling, so these showed the greatest cold tolerance
(https://i.ibb.co/kJc303f/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ypsh5h1)

(https://i.ibb.co/71h86LG/002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CHLNTDn)

#2 and #3 are not so good but are growing new leaves, so they should be ok going into spring.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-07-10, 06:12:49 AM
Those look better than mine often do over winter. In early spring when days get longer and they start perking up and growing again I often pinch out the tips to make them branch out some. Later each branch makes a new plant. I generally discard the old root bound plant.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-07-10, 01:41:33 PM
Well that is good to know. My two NZ clones stayed out in the tunnelhouse for longer have shown a degree of variability, the clone ive grown for a number of years looks half dead but is inside now and should come away again, yet the clone Chris gave me is still in the cold tunnelhouse looking perfectly okay, so that's a real cold tolerant clone.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-09-18, 12:29:06 AM
Update on the surviving clones - now the days are getting longer the growth is 'slowly' taking off, the daytime temps inside the tunnelhouse are getting into the mid 20's C and the stonework is warming to keep it about 10+deg at night while there is still light frosts outside, still, a long time yet before they go outside.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-09-18, 04:47:11 AM
How many ya got going into the new season?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Steve1 on 2019-09-18, 06:08:07 AM
Thanks reed, most kind of you.

Ive made sure the pots are quite dry which was something you mentioned a while back being important, they are not rotting as the stems look fine, the dying from the leafs down. My latitude is 42.5 degrees, I am sure the daylight hours that is the reason why some have kicked the bucket as the inside temp is not getting below 14C at night inside.

At the end of the day there are some clones that are looking good, wonder if it would help them if i stuck up a poster of a tropical beach instead them having to look out at frost  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/wWxr4sV/IMG-20190630-075620-resized-20190630-075718142.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTBFJVN)

Just saw that picture of your sweet potato plants looking out at the frost - is that single glazing Richard? Could it be radiant cooling killing your plants? The only reason I ask is that I left a sweet potato on the front verandah early in winter and it wilted badly and was not dry. 8'c out and no frost. Brought it in and it recovered in about 4 hours. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-09-18, 01:20:06 PM
The five you see above are the survivors and one Kumara from Chris Morrison that flowered for him. Yes it is single layer glass and the way I see it is if it was  radiant cooling killing some of the plants its sorted out the men from the boys
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-09-22, 12:51:09 PM
The tunnelhouse is getting quite hot during the day now and another week the door will need to be opened. Still a good 6 weeks before thinking about putting the camotes outside, quite happy with them now they are regrowing again.
(https://i.ibb.co/nq26R6B/IMG-20190923-064342-resized-20190923-064601588.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Steve1 on 2019-09-25, 05:14:52 AM
The five you see above are the survivors and one Kumara from Chris Morrison that flowered for him. Yes it is single layer glass and the way I see it is if it was  radiant cooling killing some of the plants its sorted out the men from the boys

Fair enough. You gotta crack some eggs to make an omlette... ;)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-16, 03:46:50 PM
Progress photo, another few weeks and they can go outside. Chris's Kumara has done the best out of all the clones (blue arrow) and #9 (yellow) which has been the strongest wintering over Camote.

(https://i.ibb.co/X3Zw9D6/IMG-20191017-101631-resized-20191017-102000359.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Nm64Xrf)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-10-17, 03:05:09 AM
They are looking pretty good to me. The one to the right in the brown pot is the only one that looks a little off, it's color don't look quite right. Looks like Chris's is one with longer vines rather than bushy.

It might be time to chop them up a little and clone some new plants. Don't have enough experience to say 100% for sure but I think I actually get better food harvest from a new clone that an established plant. A new clone grows two or three little roots that form big storage roots with new feeder roots on its other end. An established plant starts out with too many feeder roots and ends up with bunches of little crowded and deformed storage roots.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Walt on 2019-10-17, 10:49:30 AM
Under my conditions, a year-ols sweet potato plant planted in the garden splits and rots, though the above-ground part of the plant looks healthy until frost.  New plants from slips grow and produce well.
Your location or your variety may be quite different.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-17, 11:48:43 AM
Quote
They are looking pretty good to me. The one to the right in the brown pot is the only one that looks a little off, it's color don't look quite right.
That's poor ol Bbcuzzie, only just hung in there during winter, but its growing well and has nice green growth tips that soon turn red/bronze

Quote
Looks like Chris's is one with longer vines rather than bushy.


It was left as a long vine over winter, but you are right, that clone is a vine type that can cover a large area, it had flowers for Chris last summer

Quote
It might be time to chop them up a little and clone some new plants. Don't have enough experience to say 100% for sure but I think I actually get better food harvest from a new clone that an established plant. A new clone grows two or three little roots that form big storage roots with new feeder roots on its other end. An established plant starts out with too many feeder roots and ends up with bunches of little crowded and deformed storage roots.
Remember my goal is all about aiming for seed, not worried about the roots at this stage, I cant see taking off slips now to grow new plants will help me achieve earlier flowering, but I will take cuttings later to share around our FB group.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-17, 11:54:20 AM
Under my conditions, a year-ols sweet potato plant planted in the garden splits and rots, though the above-ground part of the plant looks healthy until frost.  New plants from slips grow and produce well.
Your location or your variety may be quite different.
Still a bit of learning game for me, but then these were cuttings taken in the autumn, so not sure that will make any difference or not.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-10-18, 06:30:00 AM
Yep, seeds are still most important for me too. The learning game also continues for me as well, lots of questions that may never be answered at least by me.

Too many variables and they are so screwy in both inheritance and mutation any one time for sure observation don't really mean that much.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-23, 11:52:40 AM
Is anyone selecting for non sweet types?  I would love a non sweet with a great texture.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-10-23, 04:42:37 PM
I actually prefer the sweet ones, maybe just cause that is what I always thought they were supposed to be but I'm learning to use the non sweet as a substitute for potatoes. I don't really select for or against at this point cause I'm still mostly focused on reliable production from seed.

That said there is a roughly a 50/50 chance that a new one from my seed will be non-sweet. Generally those that are white inside with purple skin are not sweet, kind of weird cause a couple I'v had that were white but also had white skin were sweet.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-28, 12:39:03 AM
reed-  cant you conform if these are flower buds, looks like it to me.

(https://i.ibb.co/7Vw5Mj7/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0ZgS4mP)

(https://i.ibb.co/hMSZHn7/002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XxFZWD)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-10-28, 02:39:22 AM
Sure do look like it! How many plants ya got doing it?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-28, 11:37:32 AM
I ask this as I was 99% sure it was and its the NZ kumara from Chris and its covered in buds which is just amazing. All but one of the Comates are developing flowers also, so this is a huge jump on last year that these will go outside with flowers even before the arrival of summer. I'm in no rush to get them out either, I think they are better off in the heat of the tunnelhouse for maybe another month yet.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-10-28, 12:44:46 PM
Sounds like a real big step forward, good luck. I'm sure you know they need bees, even on the chance one is self compatible as some from my seeds might be the flower structure makes selfing unlikely if left on their own. Hand pollinating is real easy though, you'll see as soon as the first flower opens.

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-06, 11:50:20 AM
Thinking more about the Kumara plant and its flower development, its likely that the reason its heavily flowering as its being influenced by the Camote clones next to them, Ive read a paper a few years ago about how plants can do that in that they can trigger other plants into flowering. Also its highly likely that the NZ clones are not self compatible hence why they haven't produced seed before.
(https://i.ibb.co/CWn1xCf/IMG-20191106-200959-resized-20191106-081030071.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hCK7pQS)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-06, 01:30:18 PM
Thinking more about the Kumara plant and its flower development, its likely that the reason its heavily flowering as its being influenced by the Camote clones next to them, Ive read a paper a few years ago about how plants can do that in that they can trigger other plants into flowering.
Those hot purple leaf Americans are making them horny.   
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-08, 01:17:41 AM
yer  ;D , noticed you edited it, did you have something rude and then removed it  8)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-08, 05:55:20 AM
Well, ah um, I didn't want to start an international scandal.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-09, 10:34:57 AM
 The hand pollinating starts today, two Camote plants have flowers open this morning, the Kumara is still a week maybe which is the one I'm looking forward to getting pollen from. Are there any tricks to the trade when it comes to pollinating these flowers.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-09, 02:35:09 PM
Are there any tricks to the trade when it comes to pollinating these flowers.

I'v used a trimmed down artist brush or Q-tip to just dab around and transfer pollen. Also sometimes I just pluck a flower off one, remove the petals and style and rub it the other flower(s).  I'v never been able to collect much pollen on a surface, that I could see.

The bees love these flowers so much that I don't mess with hand pollinating any more.  The first year I had SP flowers there was little interest from the bees, now they seem to be their favorites, I don't really understand that. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-10, 09:09:36 PM
Gees the flowers dont stay on very long do they, hand pollinated the two flowers twice, so now wait and see if I was successful
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-11, 02:48:56 AM
Gees the flowers dont stay on very long do they, hand pollinated the two flowers twice, so now wait and see if I was successful
I forgot to mention that but no they don't. It depends on the weather too, a hot dry morning and they might only last a couple hours. Cooler or cloudy they might stay till afternoon. And how long they stay varies from plant to plant.  Also when they open, some might be open at daylight and some wait a little bit.

Hey, while ya got them inside away form bees you could maybe identify any self compatible ones. You still have to pollinate them too I think cause of how the flower is arranged.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-11, 10:13:38 AM
That's interesting, the first two flowers were open for two days. I'm not going to know the self compatible ones because I'll going around and pollinating all the flowers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-11, 12:56:36 PM
The same flower stayed open for two days? That's amazing, I bet it's cause they are protected inside. Or have you taken them out already?

Have any that you pollinated dropped the flower leaving the stigma still there? That's the sign I think, that pollination was successful. Seems to me they tend most often to drop off almost immediately after pollination otherwise they just kind of wilt away and fall off leaving nothing but the stem.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-11, 05:30:22 PM
Yep, in fact the first flower on Bbcuzzie still on and that must be 5 days now, they are still inside, tempted to keep them there so I can keep working on the flowers, in the mean time ive been taking cuttings,they can be planted outside so I will allow them to be taken advantage of by the bees.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-14, 01:16:38 PM
Just noticed in the first of the Kumara flowers that there's heaps of pollen sitting in the bottom of the flower, so that is handy for when the brush is used, shame its the only flower at the moment, how long is the pollen viable if it was still on the brush
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-14, 02:19:08 PM
I ain't got even a guess on how long the pollen is viable, I suspect not long. You could try pollinating that same flower. Be interesting to know if it is self compatible.
 
Are their there any little capsules developing on the prior flowers?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-14, 05:37:07 PM
I ain't got even a guess on how long the pollen is viable, I suspect not long. You could try pollinating that same flower. Be interesting to know if it is self compatible.
I'll give it a go and see if it is self compatible, wouldn't think it as there is no history of seed in the past, though Chris reckons it could be a mutation of Owairaka Red,


Are their there any little capsules developing on the prior flowers?
No not yet, but they haven't dropped off so maybe that's a good sign
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-14, 06:04:04 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/MSs1Rkg/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/546j5h1)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-14, 06:19:21 PM
A spent but not pollinated flower generally just falls off so yep, I'd say that's a very good sign.

When you say Kumara you mean your local cloned ones, not the ones from my seeds?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-14, 07:14:56 PM
Yes I will refer to Kumara as the NZ clones. Interesting though the Kumara flower wont make the end of the day, looked lovely at 8.00am, looking weltered at now 3.00pm.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-17, 10:21:16 AM
First two flowers I tried to hand pollinate drop off, oh well, keep trying.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-17, 05:57:02 PM
First two flowers I tried to hand pollinate drop off, oh well, keep trying.

Well shucks, but I'm not worried, ya still got a lot more season to go. I feel pretty confident you'll get seeds this year.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-18, 10:17:57 AM
yep should do. Everything is in the garden now, they were outdoing there pots, so thought bugger ya, you may as well go out. Fulled up the rest of the 6metre bed with lots of cuttings. Chris's kumara had a tuber growing.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-25, 02:14:36 PM
reed- question- when you grew in tubs/large pots, did you feed them with anything?. Had someone ask me about growing in pots and where letting them send there roots out the bottom into the ground.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-26, 12:21:19 AM
reed- question- when you grew in tubs/large pots, did you feed them with anything?. Had someone ask me about growing in pots and where letting them send there roots out the bottom into the ground.

No I don't feed them and I don't worry much about what I fill the pots with*, it's just dirt I take from the garden mixed with rough compost or more likely just some weeds I scraped up. Feeder roots do exit the pots into the ground so it's important not to move them once established and if the pots have drain holes around the sides to make sure those are buried.

They do very well  that way and the pots don't have to be large. Makes harvest super easy, just dump them out. Also gets them up off the ground, a little safer from rabbits. And it helps me select for the clump root trait  I like. If the big roots are all in the pot that's what I want and I'll keep a couple to clone the next year. If they formed off the feeder roots under or around the pot where I have to dig a lot looking for them em we just eat them all.

*I may be changing that this year. Up till now I'v mainly been concerned with seeds and figured feeding might be counterproductive to that. Now I have lots to clone and lots of seeds in back up so thinking it might be time to encourage maximum production and see if they also still make abundant seeds.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-11-26, 12:59:10 AM
That's pretty much what I thought you did. Soil and compost is all I use too, I'm not very garden center friendly as they dont get much $ outa me in there till
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-11-26, 06:36:22 AM
I ain't spent a penny at a garden center or big box place in years except maybe for an occasional tree. Buying dirt or mulch seems especially ridiculous to me. If I want a more nutritious mix I'll use more finished compost mixed with the dirt, maybe scape up a little bit from surface of the chicken yard. I think stuff from under the roost might be a little too much for sweet potatoes. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-17, 11:00:00 AM
After transferring the plants to there beds it took a while for them to start growing flower buds again, Dec in not normally a great month summer wise, we had some warm days and then a few cold, Jan-Feb and March is the most settled period, so I'm pleased that there will be heaps of flowers ready to open when the summer warmth does kick in, plus there's 12 cutting plants fulling up the rest of the 6mx1m bed.
First of the hand pollination didn't come to anything, even though I could clearly see and used the pollen that was at the base of the flower.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-18, 07:46:37 AM
Do you know if pollination did not happen or if they aborted instead of growing a capsule?

Three months is more than plenty of time. Actually I think not much more than 30 days is needed to go from bud to mature seed if weather cooperates.  What do you expect as far as temperatures for next three months?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-18, 10:19:44 AM
Do you know if pollination did not happen or if they aborted instead of growing a capsule?

The flower bases just went yellow and dropped off
Three months is more than plenty of time. Actually I think not much more than 30 days is needed to go from bud to mature seed if weather cooperates.  What do you expect as far as temperatures for next three months?

What to expect?? , the spring time Sudden Stratospheric Warming event wont allow for any stable pattern we know that, there was fresh snow on the mountains yesterday morning. Sea temps between here and Australia are 2-3C deg higher than normal so when hot air does come off the continent it wont cool as much as it normally would by the time it gets here, those days expect highs of 30-35C overnight lows around 20C. Then we will have days when airflows come from the other continent, expect those days to have highs of 12-15deg, lows of 3-4deg. But those Antarctic extremes only happen two or three times per summer, most days are in the 20's and lows 10-15deg. Hot air from Australia is a lot more common though.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-18, 10:59:00 AM
What to expect weather wise in this day and age is a bit of a goofy question I reckon but your description of possibilities is pretty good. Sounds like if you get an uninterrupted period of air from the continent to the north you should get seeds.   A few days of flow frmm the south might not hurt too much unless it is associated with cloudy damp. If that happens you could have problems.

Our weird fluctuations, I think are cause of the arctic jet stream being destabilized but we have a similar effect. This season we were stuck in a ridge. Day temps of 30 C plus or minus for over 90 days, and dry. I got jillions of seeds this year. Last year a cool damp spell in August ruined half or more. Some flowers just dropped and lots of developing capsules did too.

Good thing is if weather cooperates you can get a lot of seeds and since they stay viable for a long time you can archive them as future insurance.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-18, 02:54:12 PM
We dont really start to get the damp cloudy cool weather till April, its normally dry with low humidity. Feb will be the month for any seed set, its the month of the most settled warm weather
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-28, 09:53:14 PM
Chris who lives 400kms north of me has managed to get a seed pod.

That is great news as now I know it can be done here in NZ, he is a bit warmer than here where I will be later getting my plants to re-flowering again after going outside

(https://i.ibb.co/nPBjd0k/80560929-10219004530657968-5753843982803140608-n.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-29, 12:09:34 AM
Is that a cross with the kumara?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-29, 12:32:16 AM
No its either a self or its cross between my #1 and Bbcuzzie. The flowering Kumara for me stopped making flowers as soon as it went outside, and I got one Camote that never stopped making them, I could run out to the garden to gets it number, I'll get it later.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-29, 12:55:26 AM
Well shucks, we need a cross with your old local kind to get new, maybe better adapted offspring. The picture looks like that stem had two or three flowers. The ones with less per stem seem less likely to be self compatible but that is based on some pretty skimpy evidence.
I saw on our news about an ocean surface heat anomaly east of you and looked it up on earthnullschool, it's huge. Wonder how that will effect things.   
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-29, 12:59:38 AM
So my best flowering plant is number 3, this is what I said about it a year ago - This seeding is the smallest but second to open a flower, it didnt like the cool early summer interesting how it took quite a knock the spring before yet this time it never stopped flowering.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-29, 01:09:24 AM
Well shucks, we need a cross with your old local kind to get new, maybe better adapted offspring. The picture looks like that stem had two or three flowers. The ones with less per stem seem less likely to be self compatible but that is based on some pretty skimpy evidence.

I'm not sure that the Kumara is going to flower for me again, should for Chris though, I reckon he's going to end up with a lot of seed by the end of summer.



I saw on our news about an ocean surface heat anomaly east of you and looked it up on earthnullschool, it's huge. Wonder how that will effect things.   

Yes I saw that, that area could be ideal for increasing the likelihood of low pressure devlopment, meaning cooler air dragged up from the south, also means no smoke from Australia, had quite a bit of that coming over in the last month.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-29, 07:25:46 AM
I'm not sure that the Kumara is going to flower for me again, should for Chris though, I reckon he's going to end up with a lot of seed by the end of summer.
But he has some of yours too, so possibility of some crossed seed?

Yes I saw that, that area could be ideal for increasing the likelihood of low pressure devlopment, meaning cooler air dragged up from the south, also means no smoke from Australia, had quite a bit of that coming over in the last month.
I wondered about that. I saw that it was moving toward you but thought maybe it just dissipated at that distance. Here in the Ohio River Valley, far from ocean breezes stuff often tends to settle in and stagnate. Usually you can't actually smell smoke, like when California burns but sure can see it. In recent years a couple times like when central Canada or Smokey Mountains burned you could actually smell wood smoke.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-12-29, 10:00:12 AM
This was a bad day for smoke, this would have been a blue sky day with the mountains crystal clear, but you cant even see them and they are only 30kms away

(https://i.ibb.co/PzLKb41/001.jpg)

Looking east to the morning sun

(https://i.ibb.co/tDbXVnk/002.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2019-12-30, 04:08:10 AM
Looks kinda familiar, is it red in the evenings, sometimes with a nice brown layer at the bottom?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-04, 09:56:14 PM
Hi Mark, at what stage do you typically harvest the seedheads?
As Richard has shown you, I have 1 lol,
hoping for many more, but interested to know when you pluck these, as I guess they may be of interest to feral birds/vermin?
Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-05, 03:32:37 AM
Hi Mark, at what stage do you typically harvest the seedheads?
As Richard has shown you, I have 1 lol,
hoping for many more, but interested to know when you pluck these, as I guess they may be of interest to feral birds/vermin?
Cheers
It's best if they can dry down to nearly to the point of shattering. They'll make a little cracking noise as you crush them and the seeds fall out. The seeds should be black or dark brown. That said, they will also finish up fine inside,  in fall when it's getting cold I've often just cut the stem and they finish up fine in water in a warm window.

Cool damp weather slows them down and can make some mold or drop off before maturing. Hot damp weather can make them sprout premature inside the capsule.  I've never had any critters bother them except when a rabbit sneaks in and eats the whole plant.

Below are what they look like when all the way dry and ready. If they are not quite there yet and your worried, cut the whole little stem to take inside.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-05, 04:23:38 PM
Many thanks Reed.
A long ways to go in our season yet, so fingers crossed for native flowers and seedheads also.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-06, 11:26:08 AM
Chris your mutant clone (forgotten what we called it ) that flowered so well in the tunnel house, it went out into the garden and stopped growing anymore, looking at it yesterday there's still no signs of regrowing them. no flower buds yet on Okinawan and one other Camote seedling. The rest have flower buds just waiting for summer to arrive as its been colder than average in the last few weeks. Looking at the computer models next week sees a strong anticyclone parking up over and or both sides of NZ, so that means that thankfully being inland away from cooling sea breezes there will be a hot days coming up, that should give the clones a kick up the arse.

Looking up ventusky https://www.ventusky.com for next week they are way out in there predictions, as much as 10degC
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-06, 05:54:01 PM
My 'EFR' native mutant is setting up flower buds now, as is my Okinawan, so you should be not far away Richard, as you have both.
Mass of flowers coming to hopefully 'mate' with the 'immigrants' :-)
Have had no luck posting pics here, but plenty on the FB group.
Or feel free to repost Richard.
Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-14, 02:42:59 PM
OK, so BB Cuzzie has a pod now :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-14, 03:42:57 PM
Chris your mutant clone (forgotten what we called it ) that flowered so well in the tunnel house, it went out into the garden and stopped growing anymore, looking at it yesterday there's still no signs of regrowing them.
Looking up ventusky https://www.ventusky.com for next week they are way out in there predictions, as much as 10degC

Not sure what you are dealing with there so this might be any help but often for me a new cutting takes off better than an older plant. They aren't like most other plants, they do better as a new cutting than as a transplant. Just a single little root sprout on a stem or even none at all if it's watered good a few days takes right off. Anyway if the plant is big enough to sacrifice a stem or two you might give that a go.

What do you mean by ventusky being "out", that it is wrong by that much? I'v never used it to watch temp but it is pretty darn good at tracking hurricanes.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-14, 03:45:36 PM
OK, so BB Cuzzie has a pod now :-)
YEA! sweet potato seed capsules and pictures!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-14, 06:33:02 PM
Yes I think on this site, your first few posts cannot add pics? Must be a security thing - anyways all sorted now :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-14, 06:38:49 PM
Oh good work Chris, another one
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-14, 07:40:27 PM
And here is the garden set up, camotes at foreground, Okinawan next row, then native NZ hard red mutant codenamed  'EFR'.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-16, 04:11:21 PM
Hi Mark, see below the first seed pod 'G1', is a little crispy now, and the stem is starting to yellow a little, I suspect it may fall off in a week or so? Should I leave in place and collect if/when it sheds?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-17, 03:18:08 AM
That one doesn't look quite right, the little individual stem should be drying along with the capsule. And neither one should drop off, it should stay on the plant until dry. A fully mature capsule pops open and drops the seeds rather than falling off the plant.
I believe for that one I might cut the stem back as far as I could and take it in to finish drying. I'd set it on a plate or something to catch the seeds if it shatters open on its own.  It might not shatter open on it's own at all and if not, I'd let it dry all the way before trying to open it. The seeds are kinda fragile if not fully dry, completely dry they are like little rocks. A full one has four seeds but sometimes there might just be one. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-17, 03:23:10 AM
Ok, thanks, will monitor, Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-17, 11:04:39 AM
Which way ya guna go Chris, leave it on the plant or remove it?

Does the seed flick out or drop reed
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: whwoz on 2020-01-17, 01:13:35 PM
One other alternative would be to bag the capsule in one of the organza gift type bags, allow you to leave it on the plant and if it shatters, still catch the seed
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-17, 03:04:39 PM
Hmmm, maybe it got partially pollinated? This is how it looked 4 days ago. Seems to be drying off as expected, but of course I have no idea of 'usual' time lines', can you help with these Mark? It is now 3 weeks since first spotted this (and first pic Richard posted). Thanks in advance.
Richard, I will monitor at this stage. Rather keep on the plant, one of those baggies sounds a good idea though, and I do need to get some for my MPS Bulbils.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-17, 07:40:27 PM
Hmmm, maybe it got partially pollinated? This is how it looked 4 days ago. Seems to be drying off as expected, but of course I have no idea of 'usual' time lines', can you help with these Mark? It is now 3 weeks since first spotted this (and first pic Richard posted). Thanks in advance.
Richard, I will monitor at this stage. Rather keep on the plant, one of those baggies sounds a good idea though, and I do need to get some for my MPS Bulbils.
I've never accurately tracked how long it takes them to mature but seems like forever sometimes, I'd say a month maybe a little more. Warm dry weather is best for them maturing nicely. I wouldn't let that one get rained on if I could help it.

I don't know what causes them sometimes to not have the full four seeds, either incomplete pollination or some seeds just abort for some reason I reckon.

Does the seed flick out or drop reed
They don't explode open like some things do, the capsule just cracks open and they fall out
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-17, 08:59:53 PM
It could be my imagination, but it seems to have 'shrunk' as it dries, and yes it also had 30mm rain on it a few days ago. Was hellish dry prior to that. I should have put the calipers on it, oh well , my natives and okinawan are flowering now, so hoping they produce, as the 2 pods I have so far are either self pollinated, or G1 x BB. The BB pod has also come from a 4 flower set up.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-17, 10:36:09 PM
interesting how how weather has swooped around, become warm and dry here while cooler and wet for you.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-18, 12:17:57 AM
Yep Richard, not sure if we will get any licks of rain from Cyclone Tino, likely not? Weather after that looks good for flowering here 25 highs, 15 lows.
reed, may I ask why you say "I wouldn't let that one get rained on if I could help it"??
Thanks
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-18, 04:41:02 AM
Yep Richard, not sure if we will get any licks of rain from Cyclone Tino, likely not? Weather after that looks good for flowering here 25 highs, 15 lows.
reed, may I ask why you say "I wouldn't let that one get rained on if I could help it"??
Thanks

I don't know that a little rain by itself would hurt but they don't do well in cool cloudy periods. Cool to me for the time  when lots are maturing is highs of less than, say 25. They don't mind even cooler than that so long as it is dry and sunny. Cool, cloudy and damp for a period of a few days causes lots to abort, the capsule or the whole stem just falls off.  Some don't drop off but the seeds mold inside the capsule.

At end of July in 2018 I was looking at probably 5000 seeds in process of maturing. Then it turned off damp and cloudy for a time in August with highs in the 20s or so. 75% dropped of or molded. When I sorted the rest I discarded more cause they were shrunken or had evidence of mold. Ended up with just maybe 500 nice ones for that year but I hope maybe they might have more tolerance for that kind of weather. It impacts all stages from unopened buds to nearly mature.  Cool by itself doesn't hurt, they keep maturing all the way till frost but cloudy damp is a killer.

Anyway that particular capsule has the looks of one that isn't maturing quite the way we want to see. It might still have viable seeds in it but any exposure to dampness could ruin them at this point.

Here is picture of some that formed in poor conditions. Each little group came from one capsule. The dark black ones are good, the moldy or shrunken brown ones on the left and middle are bad.  The larger brown ones on right are probably good and that is what I imagine yours might look like right now. Hopefully they will end  up like the black ones but as long as they don't shrink(too much), pucker or mold they might be ok.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-18, 03:25:40 PM
Ok thanks, that is very helpful. My garden is on a slope, so no water will lie about. In fact it gets real dry up there, so may have to irrigate - I better run soaker hoses rather than sprinklers I'm guessing, easy enough to do.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-18, 04:38:26 PM
Off with his head! Made the decision to bring this inside due to ongoing damp conditions, and it looks really dry, did not want to risk splitting. Will leave safely in a dry bowl until it 'pops'?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-18, 04:46:15 PM
Better pic
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-19, 06:23:13 AM
Nothing to do but wait now on that one. I suspect there might be a good seed or two in there.  Sometimes if they don't have a full four seeds or if they didn't dry completely in the sun they don't crack open on their own. If it doesn't I'd let it dry up for a week or more before opening it to be sure the seed itself isn't still soft. I've ruined lots by being impatient on seeing whats inside. Once all the way dry it would take a hammer to damage one.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-23, 12:57:18 PM
Now that the weather is warming up nicely with 5-6 more days over 30 deg to come i should see some good growth. The biggest plant in the front is a clone that's never flowered and doesn't look likely too either, Okinawan Purple' and Chris's EFR dont have flower buds either, disappointing considering how well it flowered in spring inside the tunnel house

(https://i.ibb.co/Yh7Ck28/Screenshot-2020-01-24-Neon-System.png) (https://ibb.co/bXg0B1L)

(https://i.ibb.co/HHs7F6n/DSC05211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RDm2vfz)
host image online (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-24, 01:29:50 AM
Nice planting set up for finding pods. My jungle will be a challenge come March!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-24, 02:25:51 PM
You were correct Mark - 1 black seed. Rock hard, good start :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-24, 03:51:15 PM
That seed looks like what I consider perfectly formed and perfectly mature, congrats!.  :)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-01-24, 06:22:46 PM
Thanks! Starting to get the hang of this, I think.
I read on another thread that you are moving to a trellis system, brilliant idea, I am spending a while each day scruffling around in foliage looking for pods, and this will increase as the plants 'go wild'. Might have to think about some trellis for seed production, save my aching back :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-01-25, 03:31:17 AM
Yea, stooping over for two or three hours every day is hard on a feller's back that's for sure. I'v took to doing it just every other day or so. When they really get going they get all tangled up too, I often can't tell when I collect a seed which plant it even came from. I grow a lot in pots, it helps raise them up off the ground a little and makes it a bit easier. Later in the season I go through with scissors and remove a lot of leaves so the seeds are easier to find.

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-25, 10:21:47 AM
Well done Christopher, a www. slap on the back  ;D
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-01-25, 02:49:55 PM
Today is the 5th straight day with temps over 5degC, what the WMO classify as a heat wave. The clones have really enjoyed this heat and have started to sprint away
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-03, 04:23:46 PM
Ok, so BB Cuzzie seed is inside now. Will leave a few days before opening. Looks like a single also. No sign of more pods yet, but masses of flowers, and weather has been hot 30~35degs, and very dry last 10 days :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-03, 05:09:47 PM
Good work young fella. Been great weather for growth, worked out the average max temp in the last 14 days has been 29C deg
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-02-04, 08:45:39 AM
Looks like another good one, hopefully your getting some cross pollination going on. If the BB Cuzzie has lots of flowers but few capsules might indicate it is non self compatible. Some of it's relatives here are selfers and some aren't. No rhyme or reason to it that I've isolated so far, too much trouble doing all the isolation and hand pollinations needed to find out. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-04, 10:39:20 AM
Clearly then the one clone that I have which has been non stop flowering since spring is non self compatible, if would have had seed by now if it was.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-04, 03:38:46 PM
Oh looky there. The 'natives' are firing! First pod on NZ Red mutation (coded EFR). In the pan garden pic, the pod is under the yellow flag. That row is EFR, next to left Okinawan, then the 2 Camotes G1 and BB.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-06, 07:29:24 PM
And another on EFR today :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-06, 09:15:05 PM
Not sure why some pics are cast on their sides, have to see if there is a preview option.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-10, 05:08:32 PM
This first (of 3), Native pod, is more ovate, so possibly 2 seeds inside?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-11, 11:44:14 AM
Looks like a chunkier pod
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-15, 01:26:14 PM
Taken a while but now getting flowering on quite a few clones, between my brush and bumblebees hopefully some pollination will happen


(https://i.ibb.co/fG4jkqV/camote.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-15, 04:37:01 PM
Should be plenty Bee action Richard, it's sooo dry, bugger all other flowers out for bee food. I have to check for pods at mid day or later, it's almost sticking your hand in a hive, early morning! Also have noted some ants, and lady bugs crawling thru the plants.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-15, 05:28:54 PM
I'm not seeing bees at all, ants though
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-20, 12:57:34 AM
looks to be my first seed pods are forming. Apart from one clone all the camotes are flowering and both clones Chris sent are not either. Having 12 days so far this summer over 30Cdeg has helped kick off good flowering.

(https://i.ibb.co/jbNsqR0/first-pods.jpg)

Today I tied the flowering clones to some short bamboo sticks so as to keep them above the rambling EFR and Okinawan clones, bit easier for the bumble bees to find the flowers

(https://i.ibb.co/Gdxy7gJ/tieup.jpg)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-20, 09:24:44 PM
Bumble bees are just brutal on flowers, watching a few buzzing around the flowers on dawn before the flowers had opened fully for the day and one bee couldn't get in so he/she ripped it down the side to get in.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-20, 09:49:25 PM
Oh Wow! I have seen ripped flowers, and wondered WTF! Well spotted, they love that pollen huh.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-21, 03:12:46 PM
They prefer pumpkin flowers i reckon, watching this morning where the pumpkin flowers had heaps of bees, just the odd one comes over from there
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-23, 09:12:49 PM
Some flowering variations on Native EFR. First 2 pics are one stem with 3 flowers only, and all open at same time. Have not seen this before. More usual, is the 3rd pic, with 6~7 flower heads per stem, and each opens over a period of a bout a week? Currently have 2 Native pods harvested, in the house, and 3 more on plants, and a whole heap (50?) on G1 Camote, a few on BB. Weather has cooled off a tad. Next 7 days between 23 and 30 degree highs, consistent 16 degree overnight lows.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-24, 09:42:53 PM
Me being closer to Antarctica than you must be why Native EFR has no flowers, big plant though
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-24, 09:44:58 PM

No luck with these pods, they fall off.
looks to be my first seed pods are forming. Apart from one clone all the camotes are flowering and both clones Chris sent are not either. Having 12 days so far this summer over 30Cdeg has helped kick off good flowering.

(https://i.ibb.co/jbNsqR0/first-pods.jpg)

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-02-25, 06:24:55 AM
That's a bummer.  They looked fine, it might be the plant is non self compatible and didn't have an appropriate mate. They will just fall off if not pollinated.
 
I think you might need some more seeds. I'm fixing to get mine out and send some to folks here in NH. Want me to drop a few more your way when I do? I could send some of the 25% or so that matured OK in the cold wet summer of 2018. Maybe they would adapt a little better for you. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-25, 10:35:56 AM
I have lots of flowers from all but one of the clones atm which the bumble bees are doing there thing, so I'm thinking that these flowers should be the one that produce seed, problem is we are now at the start of the cool down period, so Ive arranged a heap of bamboo stakes with glass bottle on the tops so my clear plastic cover can be pulled over on cool nights, that should help hopefully 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-25, 01:08:03 PM
Thanks for your generosity Mark, but between the three of us in different NZ latitudes currently growing what has came from your seed I think we should be ok, as a starting point you will know acclimatizing to 'further downunder' is our target. Hopefully our MPI people keep the door open on Ipomoea batatas imports and a number of others. you never know what can happen, I may have to take up you offer again.
Chris should have a few seedlings come spring, even if its only one or two, crossing them over the first clones will be another step. Unfortunately me being the furthermost south makes it challenge, Chris on eastern side of the North Island had a quite a run of above normal extreme temperatures which has helped him. Mike is the third gardener who received cuttings from both Chris and me, he didn't get them till later so its taken him longer to get to flowering stage. His climate sounds idyllic being on a small frost free island directly north of Auckland, but then it can be one hell of a challenging climate also, like at the moment next to no rain for three months and then they can get so so wet too. But in normal year he grows huge kumara crops, the I cant see why Camote shouldn't do just as well.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-02-25, 01:51:45 PM
His climate sounds idyllic being on a small frost free island directly north of Auckland, but then it can be one hell of a challenging climate also, like at the moment next to no rain for three months and then they can get so so wet too. But in normal year he grows huge kumara crops, the I cant see why Camote shouldn't do just as well.
All climates are getting that way, that's one reason I think sweet potatoes from seed is so important. In "normal" or a dry year here I can get great harvest plus lots of seeds.  A year like 2018 I still get a pretty good harvest even if fewer seeds.

With my strain of 100 day seed to seed or "seed to feed" as the one feller put it I still get at least some good roots in a bad year and lots of seeds in good years. Since the seeds stay viable for years even not frozen I can always start where I left off  in case of a total crop failure. Perpetual cloning can't touch that level of security and I can't think of many other crops that could either.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-27, 02:55:39 PM
Pelled first 2 Native EFR pods today. On left, the 'ovate' larger pod, that indeed held 2 good hard, although lighter brown colored, seed.

On right, a small pod, that dried off quickly on the vine, and held a soft, useless 'seed'. I suspect not properly pollinated?

Still happy to have perhaps NZ's very first native Kumara seeds, in the tin :-)



Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: whwoz on 2020-02-27, 05:25:51 PM
Good Work Chris, you are helping to inspire us here in Oz, and to keep our hopes up
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-27, 09:40:59 PM
Fantastic.

Not seeing any pods here in the South Island yet, lots of flowers though.
The local bumble bees give me giggle or two, watching one this morning who couldn't get into a half open flower, after falling off once in its frantic attempt to get in tried to bite its way in at the base of the flower, so I smacked it, " dont you be so lazy ya liitle bugger and do it properly"
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-27, 09:49:28 PM
Chris - your ruler confuses me, especially considering its made in Germany?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-28, 01:35:06 AM
Haha, yes no idea where the tape came from, (except Germany, somehow, originally) , it is a dress makers tape, I think, and I decided to use the inches side, as this is an 'imperial' site ;-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-28, 01:46:33 AM
I wouldn't even be able to get my hands on imperial ruler. ' imperial site'? Its only because one country hasn't kept up with the rest of the world
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-02-28, 06:07:20 AM
I don't know, those brown ones look pretty well formed. Black is certainly most common in my plants and I take it a sign of quality seed but I don't know that is necessarily critical. I imaging they can vary some for unknown reasons and I have had brown ones sprout just fine. I've read that they range from black to brown to mottled but I've never seen a mottled one.
Shape and size I think might be most important. Do those seed have two flat sides, rounded on the other with a little dent on one end?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-28, 02:22:26 PM
The EFR seed are quite flat, as you can perhaps see in the 'profile' pic? I put this down to there being 2 in the pod? One has a little 'crater' in the end, the other has 2 wee craters, quite cute lol, like dimples. 2nd Pic is all seeds harvested and peeled so far (metric side of tape for RW haha).
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-02-29, 11:00:33 AM
Thanks for turning the tape over Chris  ;D
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-02-29, 02:35:55 PM
Few pics from today.
1. Nursery garden
2. BB 'nest' with 3 pods
3. G1 'nest' with 15 pods
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-01, 12:49:11 AM
Looking like they will be heaps of seeds to take this project forward, so pleased I shared cutting around.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-01, 02:21:46 AM
Looking good, what does the G1 designation mean? 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-01, 10:54:59 AM
Is pollination temperature related? Does it need to be over a certain temp day or nighttime?. In Jan parts of NZ had a heatwave, Chris had mid 30'sC where here was low 30's, but I only had my one flowering plant with flowers, Chris had heaps of flowers which is now the seed pods in his photos. I have had heaps of flowers for a month now but no seed set and where temps have been mid/late 20's, been some cold nights too, got down to 3deg. The clue will be if Chris gets pods from February flowering.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-01, 03:24:38 PM
Is pollination temperature related?
I really don't know. In my garden it seems not. I'v have very young plants set seed in late spring and old mature plants keep it up in cooler fall. They do do it more in summer proper but I think that is just cause that's when they are growing most actively.

In may be something else is involved. This paper "Self- and cross-incompatibilities in sweetpotato and their implications on breeding Fekadu Gurmu1,2,*, Shimelis Hussein1 and Mark Laing1" might offer some insights.
http://www.cropj.com/gurmu_7_13_2013_2074_2078.pdf (http://www.cropj.com/gurmu_7_13_2013_2074_2078.pdf)

Does Chris have any varieties that you don't have?

They are extremely diverse and unpredictable and I'm more and more convinced that evidence and findings in one study or another only apply to that study and the plants involved in it. Can't assume it applies the whole species or various subsets, let alone in various conditions.

The more I find out the more I realize how little I know but that's so for about everything.


Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-01, 03:48:23 PM
Does Chris have any varieties that you don't have?

Yep we have pretty much the same but he doesnt have my non flowering Clone. His 'native' as he called it is only just now starting to form flower buds. We both have the same plants, we both have plenty of bees, so it must be weather related.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-01, 05:37:09 PM
Unless, Richard, the 2 green clone cuttings you sent me, (which I call G1 and G2), are a type that died out for you over winter? My G2 died. But G1 is a really prolific seed producer, and perhaps an aggressive inducer? It may be identifiable, imho, as it is not strongly running, nor is it really bushy like BB. Kind of a mid range - you can look down and see the pods from a birds eye view, I guess what I am saying is that it is much more vine, stem and flower/pod than leaf? Will try to get a birdeyes view up soon, maybe Mark can ID it?
Pic below G1 pods harvested today. Mark - all have dry brown seed pods, but some ( 3 on left) still a tad yellow on stems. No evidence of any 'seed spitting', so guess better to leave on plant til all brown, like the 7 on the right? (Unless serious rain coming of course). G1 has about 100 pods atm.
TIA
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-01, 05:44:48 PM
I took cuttings in the spring Chris, so that was after the winter die offs.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-01, 06:27:27 PM
Ahh ok, so what you sent me in Feb/Mar last year (1 x BB, 2 x Green), were after your die offs? I thought you lost one last winter?
Anyway, as all came from seed G1 could be anything - and you have naming rights :-)
Here are some pics, quite distinct, small of leaf size (as opposed to leaf number?), very heavy of flower stem, long stems vs BB, and perhaps double footprint of BB, but nothing like the jungles of Okinawan and EFR, and the standard native NZ Owairaka Red, all strong runners, with leave double or more the size of G1.
Hope that makes sense?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-02, 01:22:37 AM
sorry, I'm getting mixed up when I sent you them
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-02, 03:49:12 PM
Decided to put up a temp fence, to keep G1 and BB from marauding Okinawan and Native EFR. Mainly for ease of harvesting the Camote pods.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-10, 04:12:22 PM
Peeled about 40 x G1 Camote today, big range of sizes from early sets. Later pods on plant look bigger,more uniform, incl doubles. Had 2 'soft' seeds here, perhaps taken from vine a whisker early? Thinking I may get around 200 seed this year, mainly the prolific G1, but perhaps 30 x  BB, and 10~15 x Native EFR. Still plenty of flowers being produced daily here.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-10, 07:53:38 PM
O' wow, I almost missed this post. Some of those seeds look a little puny but some of them look GREAT! I think your on your way. Careful, it's habit forming.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-10, 11:43:04 PM
Indeed Mark - already planning my trellis growing systems for next year, this daily 'forage' in the undergrowth is 'fun', for now, but never on a larger scale.
The smaller seeds are from double pods, not sure if later pods (much larger) are getting X'd from Native EFR, which, of itself has larger seed pods. Might get a cyclone here next week, so will have to watch closely , or even harvest early :-(
 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-11, 04:03:42 AM
It can get tiresome crawling through the sweet potatoes every day, specially when the patches get bigger. I think they get easier to make seeds as generations go on. Another year or two and it's piss on it, just let em fall off and volunteer on their own.
If you get worried over weather and have pods pretty well on the way, you can cut whole bloom stems and finish them up in water inside but younger ones on the same stem won't make it.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-11, 04:30:58 AM
I have noticed, the Camotes, pod to harvest, is about 3~4 weeks, however the Native EFR, are maybe 2 weeks more. Have you a rough guide from pollination (or at least detection of a pod), to 'dry down' Mark? The natives here seem to be bigger pods, more ovate, and hang on the vine quite differently to the Camotes(i.e. stems stay green for ages).
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-11, 06:40:05 PM
Yea, I think 3 to 4 weeks is about it, never tracked it for sure. I have't  noticed a difference in maturity time between the green ones and the purple ones.

Interesting your native ones have different shape, I've seen different size pods and seeds but never a different shape. If you've never got seed before it's pretty good sign you got some brand new kinds, just wait till they start segregating.

I recommend giving them a couple generations before culling any with no food size roots, some of their children will have them. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-12, 10:45:24 PM
Well, I will not be getting seed this year!. Plenty of flowers, plenty of bees but no seed set, too far south for this generation of clones I feel. But me mate Chris is the hero of the day, his work means the NZ breeding program will take a huge step forward next spring. I will take cuttings again form my clones and winter them over, then hopefully these will be added to with the local seed grown from Chris. I think the idea is we get as many clones growing as possible and share these around the small core group we have here.
All in all i  still remain positive and see the acclimatization to my South Island climate may take longer than first thought   
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-12, 10:49:14 PM
O' wow, I almost missed this post. Some of those seeds look a little puny but some of them look GREAT! I think your on your way. Careful, it's habit forming.

Dont worry, he has the bug
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-03-13, 03:21:48 AM
Well, I will not be getting seed this year!. Plenty of flowers, plenty of bees but no seed set
Did you not even get any that tried but aborted while very small? If not it may be a case of incompatibility rather than weather. Cause of how the bees the next closest flower it really matters that the vines of each plant mix up good with each other. If the plants are separated by even a little distance and are self incompatible there will be less seeds. 

I think an isolated plant that makes seeds is certainly self compatible. A plant that makes lots while others nearby just make a few is probably also self compatible. The fewer seeds on other plants are probably crosses.

Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-13, 11:49:34 AM
Watching the bees whizzing around they were going from plant to plant a lot so you would think there would be some seed, maybe it was Native EFR that helped Chris as it didn't flower for me?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-13, 02:54:40 PM
I think G1 camote is the 'inducer' and likely self compatible, going by Marks theory.
EFR was the last to flower, and really will only get perhaps 10 seeds, from 4 plants vs G1 200 seeds from 1 plant, and BB 30 seeds from 1 plant while Okinawan is a doughnut from 3 plants.
All these are in an area of about 3m2 , and only now are they starting to 'inter mingle'.
I am going to make some G1 cuttings to send you Richard, as I have a hunch that your G1 died during last winter?
Next question is how best to store dried seed. Sealed plastic bag? Paper bag? Glass jar? Other?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-14, 12:46:46 AM
Wait till spring to send the G1, save having it kick the bucket again over winter
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-14, 12:59:16 AM
This seeding is the smallest but second to open a flower, it didnt like the cool early summer (https://i.ibb.co/Mgp84ZT/003.jpg)
Not sure if you have this clone Chris but its the most prolific and longest flowering clone, its been flowering for 6 months now and still going strong while some have now stopped.

edit-  photo from last summer

 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-03-14, 01:36:27 AM
Well, maybe, that could be what I call 'G1'? That has been flowering 6 months, and still flowering and setting seed. There again, BB has been flowering just as long, only less inclined to set pods. I took 8 x G1 apical cuttings today, all had flower buds on them, and still seed pods developing near runner ends. Am harvesting about 6~7 mature pods per day. Yes I will send 'G1' plants to you in spring :-)  then, we may unravel this riddle!
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-03-14, 11:00:38 PM
Just taken cuttings for winter
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-01, 06:40:04 PM
Just had a 'grade out' for G1 seeds harvested and dried in March. I will keep these separate, as suspect April harvest will contain some decay, due to recent rain? 100 x 1st grade , 23 x 2nd Grade. Also have about 11 BB, and 9 EFR from March harvest. Still maybe 50 x BB on vine (these are very slow to mature vs G1) , and 50 x G1  plus another 4 x EFR.  Now, how do I store these, til planting, please Mark? Sealed paper envelope? Ziplock plastic bag? Screw top plastic pills container? I have asked this before, and apologies in advance if I missed a reply. Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-04-01, 07:18:36 PM
Those look great! I just let them lay around in open paper packs for a couple three weeks to be sure they are dry and then seal in little 6 mil plastic bags. I pack those in a jelly jar with a new lid and put up in the unheated spare room upstairs. You could of course keep in the ridge or freezer but I don't and haven't had any problems.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-01, 07:26:51 PM
Thanks Mark. I noticed some of the recent seeds, when podded, showed some white mold, you can see some on the '2nds' in that pic. I wonder now, if I should get the seeds out immediately after harvest, and dry in sun a few days, thus disgarding the damp stem/pods? Then do the 3 week paper bag dry down?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-04-01, 10:59:57 PM
My end of season report -
Three clones produced tubers the rest long roots that appeared to be heading to Australia, I was not going to follow em.

One of the flowering tubers that grew right below the center stem.
(https://i.ibb.co/r4gWQsH/flowering.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yWD3NSq)

This is the non flowering clone that grew into a large plant and grew tubers again below the main stem.

(https://i.ibb.co/prwjdmH/EFR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cX3hQmW)

And Chris's EFR
(https://i.ibb.co/ZKnBr6M/b.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zbyXgh4)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-04-02, 01:46:17 AM
Chris, I would definitely give any molded ones extra drying, if I was to keep them but I don't keep them. I pitch them out when I see that and when time to put up in plastic I inspect them all real good and discard any that have it. The damp/cloudy weather causes it. 2018 was a bad year for that here, I lost hundreds of seeds that year but hope that those that didn't have it may have some resistance.

Richard, you got a white one! White ones I've had were not sweet but I learned to like them fried with onions. Texture was dry and crumbly, but otherwise just as good as potatoes, I thought. White is an example of how diverse they are cause none of the original parents had white.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-04-02, 12:20:06 PM
I find sunflower seed notorious at going moldy if kept in plastic bags, so I always leave my in paper, never freeze it and store the bag that has open air around it.

Mark - you dont make potatoes sound overly exciting, the Moiemoie spud I grow are wonderfully taste and remain firm once cooked.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-04-02, 04:31:14 PM
O no, I like potatoes a lot, mashed potatoes, baked potatoes, fried potatoes and some just stirred around a little in hot butter.
Fried or baked with garlic the non-sweet, sweet potatoes really are just as good as a potato, but not exactly same flavor. It's the completely different texture that put me off at first.  Also good baked with garlic and rosemary, haven't tried them mashed yet.

My gripe with potatoes is that they have become so unreliable here in past several years, total failure or near so 2 of 3 years I reckon. The sweet potatoes sometimes don't make as many seeds but still make a harvest. The years they do make good seeds they make a lot. And a sweet potato seed grows good roots the first season, don't have keep little tubers till the next.

I've had a grand total of two potato berries in several attempts. don't mean to bad mouth potatoes at all, just that sweet potatoes are so much easier for me.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-04-03, 12:57:39 PM
Yer I suppose that's difference between your growing conditions to mine, here spuds do really well (pre arrival of psyllid) https://potatoesnz.co.nz/news-info/industry-news/tomato-potato-psyllid-myths/ That sure they will get established or not as it needs wintering over host plants which there aren't any of, but if it does I will invest in a insect net.
The Ipomoea batatas though looks promising for me this far south,I was very happy with the three clones that produced the good sized roots, if grown next growing season for a tuber crop only it would be well worth growing again but grown much closer together. So growing from those tubers and a few seeds from Chris and I'll be doubling the area from summer just gone.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-03, 09:58:57 PM
I will be using a trellis system next season Richard. Harvesting is a bloody pain, scratching around on hands and knees daily, and the dense foliage of BB is a haven for mold - BB is a very late maturing pod also, so maybe more prone to disease (vs G1). Running the plants skyward on a support system may assist pollination, and airflow, so better quality and yield? Plus less voltaren needed!  Should also be able to better utilize garden area. I am thinking waratahs and steel reinforcing mesh, to perhaps 1.8m high? The only issue I think, is both G1 and BB are squat non-running types, so may not be suitable for such a system - perhaps better in 50litre tubs? Any thoughts guys?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: whwoz on 2020-04-03, 10:18:23 PM
Chris, based on what I have done and seen this season probably not necessary to go to 1.8 m high.  I used 1.1 m wide gate infill mesh, simply because I had it available and found that it was easiest to poke runners through the mesh squares.  They don't naturally climb and need to be woven or tied to a frame.

I think it would be best to set up trellis and plant within 150 mm of base, of not directly underneath trellis and start tying as soon as runners are long enough to reach it.  Bushy growers are a problem that may be dealt with best by utilising a V shaped frame.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-03, 11:26:25 PM
Thanks whwoz. Hmmm, I recall some type of wire support system, with a flare, perhaps for flower arranging? Something like that might work, just to keep the Bushy types off the soil, and allow air circ.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: whwoz on 2020-04-03, 11:32:25 PM
Thinking about it, why not look at something like a tomato cage, narrow at the base,  wider at the top with a number of rings of wire to tie the runners to?   Could stake cage to the ground with stakes tied at the top if wind is an issue
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-04, 02:18:07 AM
Ahh yes, that was what I had in mind, tomato frame, or similar. As an aside, have noticed that BB is a 'spitter', some pods, whilst drying down inside, have spat seeds out. This has not occurred with G1 or EFR.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-04-05, 03:12:04 AM
You must have wild bamboo growing in and around your area Chris, that's ideal stuff to use for climbing up
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-04-05, 03:13:56 AM
Ahh yes, that was what I had in mind, tomato frame, or similar. As an aside, have noticed that BB is a 'spitter', some pods, whilst drying down inside, have spat seeds out. This has not occurred with G1 or EFR.

you might have a few voluntarily pop up next summer.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-05, 05:03:01 AM
Yes, I think that will be the case Richard, bit like my garlic experiments - stuff popping up everywhere now! and as for Bamboo, there is plenty here, but thinking a more robust frame maybe, bit like on that Cornell Uni video, in case of high winds/rain? BB especially is a tricky monster, dense as could be, with little/short.. fat/thick pod stalks, that take an age to mature (again vs G1)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-04-17, 11:20:30 PM
How cool looking are the BB Cuzzie pods.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-05-02, 09:59:22 PM
Final Seed tally 376, of which 300 were from 'G1'. The G1 storage roots harvested today did ok also. Over 2kg from the 1 plant , a bit manky as they should ideally have been pulled late March, but seeding went on, an on! No decent roots to speak of, on BB Cuzzie.
Native flowering 'EFR' has decent roots, some up yo 1.6kg (3rd pic). That's us done and dusted for the season - it's been great :-)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-06-17, 11:06:08 PM
What a difference a year makes. Last winter my cuttings that were wintered over inside the house barely managed to pull through, this winter so far they are flying through even with flower buds :)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-06-20, 03:37:59 PM
BBcuzzie this time last year was so close to dead, this June its flowering. As you have pointed out Mark they do mutate/adapt. 

(https://i.ibb.co/wdNK6MV/BBC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VLWvB2R)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-06-22, 01:38:37 AM
My god that plant look healthy! I have just bought some of mine in, and will do rest tomo. Been sidetracked with garlic planting, and also have plenty stored roots for slips, then we need to make a plan for the seed Richard.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-06-23, 06:36:03 AM
That plant is much bigger than when I keep them over winter. I just take cuttings and stick them in plastic drinking cups. Most times by spring they are pretty puny looking. Even cuttings do often keep blooming into early winter. Then the drafty windowsill gets too cold and puts a stop to it.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-07-20, 08:17:50 AM
Hey, Richard. I'll trade New Zealand 10,000 sweet potato seeds for a little homestead, transportation and citizenship for two. Act fast, the offer could expire at anytime due to circumstances beyond my control.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-07-20, 07:02:04 PM
My god that plant look healthy! I have just bought some of mine in, and will do rest tomo. Been sidetracked with garlic planting, and also have plenty stored roots for slips, then we need to make a plan for the seed Richard.

My stored tubers have lasted well in the shed, the white root is a nice taster
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-07-20, 07:09:43 PM
That plant is much bigger than when I keep them over winter. I just take cuttings and stick them in plastic drinking cups. Most times by spring they are pretty puny looking. Even cuttings do often keep blooming into early winter. Then the drafty windowsill gets too cold and puts a stop to it.

They were small when I took the cuttings (2cm tall), so that's all growth they have put on during winter. Hasn't been a cold winter helps though, my area historically always got snow and most winters more than once , if it doesn't snow this winter that will be 5 years in a row. But then how much have these clones adapted over the last three years?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-07-20, 07:11:21 PM
Hey, Richard. I'll trade New Zealand 10,000 sweet potato seeds for a little homestead, transportation and citizenship for two. Act fast, the offer could expire at anytime due to circumstances beyond my control.

Would that mean we would have to move out or would ya be happy to pitch a tent down the bottom end of the paddocks.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-07-22, 02:00:58 PM
That would do in a pinch, or maybe a dry spot under a deck.

Was actually looking for a government grant of a nice little spot of our own. When you talk to her let your PM know I can sweeten the deal with a sloppy kiss smack on the lips.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-07-22, 03:24:36 PM
Sorry no decking of any kind, could offer a corner inside a shipping container

Quote
When you talk to her let your PM know I can sweeten the deal with a sloppy kiss smack on the lips.

Want to be careful there mate, she could do some serious damage with those magnificent set of choppers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-07-22, 06:49:19 PM
I'll take my chances ;)
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-08-13, 11:27:03 PM
Thanks Chris, seeds arrived and is now sown, kept BBcuz and G1 in different pots. Going to be interesting what a la nina summer will bring for us, normally its more cloud and increased rainfalls for us east coasters
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-08-24, 06:50:51 PM
First to pop up.. looks like a BB cross? Should be crossed with EFR, if I tagged everything correctly. Quite cool if they identify by color like this, can you confirm Mark? Or do all seedlings start off this color?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-08-25, 12:11:25 AM

Great news Chris, heat pads are great things. Wonder how long mine will take, its getting quite warm in the tunnelhouse now
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-08-25, 01:12:48 AM
Chris, no they don't always start that way. They can be lots of colors and combinations of colors. Stems at first can be green, purple, red or yellow. I think most of the purple might have came from that original ornamental one that played a big part in starting it all, I guess it passed to bushy bloomer and on down the chain. 

But they are very weird, colors and combinations of colors and other traits that were not in any of the original parents often show up.  For example I never ever planted one with solid purple roots nor one with  pink roots nor one with white roots but all of those things have shown up. Plants pretty much identical to bushy bloomer in all other ways also show up but in green rather than purple, or ivy leaf rather than heart shape. I never ever planted one known to have very long trailing vines but they show up too.

This year I have one with pink and white variegation in the leaves. There is an ornamental variety like that that is sometimes called ipomoea tricolor but I have never grown it.  I'm not sure this pink variegation isn't some kind of virus or something so I moved that one far away from the others and I'm fine that it hasn't bloomed. 

Very rarely, maybe 1/2 of 1 % one comes up that is all white.  They apparently can't make chlorophyll and only survive a few weeks and only in shade. Leaves on the one that lived the longest turned gold with red veins, it was pretty but died quickly when I exposed it to a little bit of sunshine. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-08-25, 02:19:35 AM
Thanks Mark, that is helpful. The NZ native only had 15 seeds, so at least that should be a thing, and hopefully it crossed also with BB and G1, but really, It's a 'suck and see', as you say, Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-08-25, 07:46:45 AM
Yea, they are so diverse it's anyone's guess what will come from any particular seed. I did have the advantage early on of being able to acquire six or seven "heirloom" varieties that bloomed at least modestly but they didn't make a lot of seeds at first.

Some of those may have crossed with each other a little bit but I think that one self-compatible ornamental is mostly responsible for all the heavy blooming that started showing up later. It seems to have acted like some kind of key that unlocked the others and half or more of it's descendants have it too. 

Now in the seventh year, I think its seven now, they are just completely out of control. Its gonna be fun in another month or so when I get to dump them out and see what kind of roots they have.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-08-31, 02:11:25 AM
First one into 5gallon fabric pot.  In total , 5 have popped up, the rest are no shows, so far, which does seem a little weird? Hard to know if over watering or under watering. One is having real trouble shedding the seed pod. Another rotted. Interesting trial.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-08-31, 05:40:38 AM
First one into 5gallon fabric pot.  In total , 5 have popped up, the rest are no shows, so far, which does seem a little weird? Hard to know if over watering or under watering. One is having real trouble shedding the seed pod. Another rotted. Interesting trial.

I've seen that widely varied germination time is normal,  weeks or more. Sometimes I've planted and just left the rest setting in the garden and more sprouted  even a couple months later. For my breeding project I've selected for those that sprout fast and easy, which at first was only around 5% or so.

I've seen that problem with having trouble shedding the seed pod. This year I planted them a little deeper and seems to have helped. A drop of water on top of the stuck ones seems to help too.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-08-31, 10:41:22 PM
Thanks Mark. The ol 'water on the stuck seed pod' gag, worked a treat! 3 of the first 5 up, were crosses from my native EFR. Which is encouraging, as I only got 15 seed from EFR in total. They are either EFR x G1, or EFR x BB.  The other couple of early sprouters are from G1 and BB, so these may also be BB x EFR and G1 x EFR,,,, or they could both be G1 x BB. I am glad to know more seeds should sprout, over time. Cheers
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-09-05, 10:47:46 PM
All manner of shapes,sizes, colors and leaf numbers from the first 8 to pop up. Tried uploading 4 pics, but just 2 big, so here is a couple.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-09-05, 10:51:39 PM
And a couple more
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-09-06, 10:53:35 PM
A couple of questions: Are 3 cotelydon leaves (as in pic 4030), being my first and most advanced seeding, normal? Most of the others have 2 x lobed cot leaves, except for pic 4029 (right hand side), which has only 1 , ovate, cot leaf. All very strange to me. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-09-07, 03:09:10 AM
Normal? Ha, heck if I know but it happens fairly often. Most of course have two but some three, some one and occasionally four or even five.

Every once in a while one has what looks like two stems fused together, looks kind of like an electric cord where two wires are insulated from each other. That similar thing shows up sometimes just on a branch of a plant or with two flowers fused together.

They about all just grow more or less normally except the white ones I mentioned, they always die.

I think it has to do with the ploidy numbers but I'm not very learned about that and kind of gave up on really understanding it at least as it relates to sweet potatoes. From what I gather their true origin is unknown, maybe a cross between two different species and maybe more than once and the ploidy numbers didn't match.

And from what I've read they are transgenic, having picked up genes from another organism a few thousand years ago. If I remember right it helped them develop the ability to store sugars and other stuff in enlarged roots.

When I get some time I will look up all the papers I'v found about them and post some links. Maybe someone else can make more sense of it but it's kind of like going down a rabbit hole to me.  I decided it's more fun to just plant them and watch what happens.



Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-09-09, 01:40:02 PM
Well done Chris, looking good. Sadly nothing up yet here on the mainland
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Chris Morrison on 2020-09-09, 11:54:24 PM
Now have 10 up Richard. that is 3 weeks from planting. First was day 5, latest day 20. Balance 270 odd still asleep. I wonder if there will be a 'mass hatching' at some point?
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-09-10, 12:30:39 AM
A hatching frenzy ya reckon, need something to bloody happen   :'(
Title: Re: Ipomoea batatas - breeding of Sweet Potato - Camote clones - New Zealand
Post by: reed on 2020-09-10, 04:15:12 AM
I've never seen a hatching frenzy in mine. There is generally the initial fast sprouters, in the first week or so, after that they just straggle along.

I used to start them in cell packs but they transplant so easily I switched to just sowing about an inch apart in widow box flower pots and then just plucking them out with a spoon. Also this year I did a bunch directly in the ground.

After transplanting into the growing pots or ground I have often just set the extras aside in the garden. Whether in cell packs, the flower pots or ground I have noticed something enough times that it must be significant. That is after sitting drying out in the sun for however long, days, or weeks it would rain a little and poof some more would sprout. And it has happened multiple times, all the way through the season with more sprouting each time it rained.

So, I've never purposely tried it but I wonder if successive rounds of letting them dry completely out, followed by a through drenching might work.

I've also noticed there are different kinds. Those like BB that make big clusters of seed capsules and those that make just two or three at each leaf node.  Those that make less per node seem to make larger seeds with more capsules having a full four seeds, and those seeds seem to sprout faster.

In any event it seems to get easier each generation. If you only get say 10% early germination this year it will be higher next year.