Open Source Plant Breeding Forum

General Category => Nightshades => Plant Breeding => Tomatoes => Topic started by: William S. on 2022-02-23, 07:12:48 PM

Title: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-23, 07:12:48 PM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2309346-purple-superfood-tomato-could-finally-go-on-sale-in-the-us/amp/

They plan to sell seeds to gardeners!

I can't read the end.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/things-to-do/food-reviews/john-innes-centre-purple-tomatoes-heading-for-usa-8553956

This is another article Garrett had shared earlier.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Diane Whitehead on 2022-02-23, 09:52:49 PM
I wouldn't mind growing it if the added genes were from blueberries, but they are from snapdragons, so I won't.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-24, 05:55:10 AM
https://www.bigpurpletomato.com/our-story

http://www.norfolkplantsciences.com/

Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2022-02-24, 07:41:50 AM
I wouldn't mind growing it if the added genes were from blueberries, but they are from snapdragons, so I won't.

Curious as to why that makes a difference?

Im probably not interested,  but not because its GMO, and not because I think there is a conflict with open source breeding,  or any ethical concern. I don't have any problems with those in theory.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-24, 08:27:54 AM
I suspect transgene engineered foods which are bred for health benefits like this one will one day get organic approval. I also suspect that methodology wise they will one day be a bit of a dinosaur given recent advances in gene editing. It seems like it is possible that this tomato will be an heirloom in another 38 years in 2058. It is funny though that it got made with snapdragon genes probably an eyeblink before a gene edit could get us the same trait in the correct place in the genome where it is in purple fleshed tomatillos using the same gene as in purple fleshed tomatillos. Which honestly might still be possible from the 14 or so species tomato complex with natural breeding.

I am curious as to precisely how it will be released in a legal sense. This curiosity is greater than normal because they are talking about releasing seeds to gardeners. I've never heard of a GMO released to gardeners though some may have been unintentionally like feral canola

When the non-GMO OSU Blue was unintentionally released it led to a flurry of breeding of blue skinned tomatoes. Even if this new GMO blue fleshed tomato is released with no patents whatsoever it wouldn't be accepted as organic nor likely by the OSSI (any time soon) though I can't speak for them. Patents though do eventually expire so eventually this will enter the public domain. Not sure when that would be!

I am bothered by the current lack of acceptance of GMOs by organic standards and would want to know what the legal framework is particularly in regard to the OSSI before I grew it or bred with it as I consider myself to be breeding for organics and OSSI and if they won't accept it I might as well not waste the time and isolation gardens on it.

If I grew it, I would need to super isolate it, maybe at my parent's place. Or I might be tempted to just buy some fruit, save the seed (if legal to do so), dry it down, seal it, and freeze it for the next couple decades to preserve the option of breeding with it later.

Also curious over how it would interact genetically. With the bicolor flesh gene would we get those kinds of spectacular patterns? How about a blue / yellow/white bicolor? Would it interact favorably with the various skin patterning genes? Wonder what the various possibilities for genetic expression are?

In terms of legal framework what would happen if you crossed it intentionally or unintentionally with an existing OSSI variety of tomato?

One future concern is that it would make tomato seed swapping (which is currently a lot of fun) just a lot more perilous in terms of contamination. The fact that I really like tomatoes with higher natural outcrossing rates doesn't help either because the contamination could quickly spread. There could easily be the same sort of breeding flurry with this as there was for the blue skinned tomato which could spread contamination even in plants not expressing the trait because as they explain on their website, they've inserted three genes for the deep purple flesh two snapdragon genes and an arabidopsis regulator gene. So you could for instance, get just the arabidopsis gene without noticing that a line was contaminated but then later genetic testing could lead to a lot of organic decertification etc.  Eventually we just might not care about that (decades from now) but I think in the near future ~20 years or so we will probably collectively care a great deal. One problem being that some will almost certainly not care about those concerns and will breed with it whatever the legal status because it is a very shiny new trait and almost impossible to regulate once you transfer it to home gardeners.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2022-02-24, 11:34:23 AM
I suspect transgene engineered foods which are bred for health benefits like this one will one day get organic approval. I also suspect that methodology wise they will one day be a bit of a dinosaur given recent advances in gene editing. It seems like it is possible that this tomato will be an heirloom in another 38 years in 2058. It is funny though that it got made with snapdragon genes probably an eyeblink before a gene edit could get us the same trait in the correct place in the genome where it is in purple fleshed tomatillos using the same gene as in purple fleshed tomatillos. Which honestly might still be possible from the 14 or so species tomato complex with natural breeding.

I am curious as to precisely how it will be released in a legal sense. This curiosity is greater than normal because they are talking about releasing seeds to gardeners. I've never heard of a GMO released to gardeners though some may have been unintentionally like feral canola

When the non-GMO OSU Blue was unintentionally released it led to a flurry of breeding of blue skinned tomatoes. Even if this new GMO blue fleshed tomato is released with no patents whatsoever it wouldn't be accepted as organic nor likely by the OSSI (any time soon) though I can't speak for them. Patents though do eventually expire so eventually this will enter the public domain. Not sure when that would be!

I am bothered by the current lack of acceptance of GMOs by organic standards and would want to know what the legal framework is particularly in regard to the OSSI before I grew it or bred with it as I consider myself to be breeding for organics and OSSI and if they won't accept it I might as well not waste the time and isolation gardens on it.

If I grew it, I would need to super isolate it, maybe at my parent's place. Or I might be tempted to just buy some fruit, save the seed (if legal to do so), dry it down, seal it, and freeze it for the next couple decades to preserve the option of breeding with it later.

Also curious over how it would interact genetically. With the bicolor flesh gene would we get those kinds of spectacular patterns? How about a blue / yellow/white bicolor? Would it interact favorably with the various skin patterning genes? Wonder what the various possibilities for genetic expression are?

In terms of legal framework what would happen if you crossed it intentionally or unintentionally with an existing OSSI variety of tomato?

One future concern is that it would make tomato seed swapping (which is currently a lot of fun) just a lot more perilous in terms of contamination. The fact that I really like tomatoes with higher natural outcrossing rates doesn't help either because the contamination could quickly spread. There could easily be the same sort of breeding flurry with this as there was for the blue skinned tomato which could spread contamination even in plants not expressing the trait because as they explain on their website, they've inserted three genes for the deep purple flesh two snapdragon genes and an arabidopsis regulator gene. So you could for instance, get just the arabidopsis gene without noticing that a line was contaminated but then later genetic testing could lead to a lot of organic decertification etc.  Eventually we just might not care about that (decades from now) but I think in the near future ~20 years or so we will probably collectively care a great deal. One problem being that some will almost certainly not care about those concerns and will breed with it whatever the legal status because it is a very shiny new trait and almost impossible to regulate once you transfer it to home gardeners.

I agree with you. I don't understand why modern GE crops with increasing accuracy of targeted genes should conflict with organic or OSSI "standards". In theory they are a perfect compliment and I believe someday despite heavy pushback in the beginning that we WILL have open source or organically grown GE crops.

Im also not sure why a snapdragon gene should matter over blueberries. I can understand if it came from a fish that lives in the arctic or some other animal.

Having said that though... I will be the first to jump on board of growing a Mango tree that has the fish gene to keep it from freezing in the winter.

PaddyMc or PaddyMac has already bred tomatoes with colored flesh using natural methods! He said he would send me seeds, but must have forgot. If you can get seeds I am highly interested in that one! I love the marbled effect!

Not as deep purple as the GMO ones though.

This is the coolest tomato picture i know of named "FY 1-1" by a fellow who goes by "PaddyMc".
Lunar Eclipse - Lithium Sunset x Indigo Rose 

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/641/21820692358_189563196c_c.jpg 
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=34043

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/641/21820692358_189563196c_c.jpg)

Maybe someone should replicate the Lithium Sunset x Indigo Rose cross and see if the same combo shakes out.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-24, 11:50:46 AM
Looks red to me- the interior pigmented flesh on the paddymc cross. Might just be the photo.

Check out this blue skinned bicolor photo https://renaissancefarms.org/product/alices-dream-tomato/ and this one which is an old heirloom bicolor https://renaissancefarms.org/product/pineapple-tomato/ to my eye at least all three look roughly the same on the interior color.

I think we should systematically cross the blue skinned tomatoes with as many wild species of as many wild accessions as possible.

I think the Oregon state lab might be working on it. They have more info and access / time. But that would be my basic approach. Cross with as much wild diversity as possible see if it triggers the right promoter gene somewhere. I kind of probably will do that anyway but I am not actively searching for a promotor that would probably be a big job I just like blue skinned tomatoes. My wife got her degree there at OSU and I took a few classes with her including plant genetics and then Indigo Rose came out and it was the first I had heard of it. I think Indigo Rose is one of the tomatoes that launched me into tomato addiction. I found Brad Gates not long after and bought a bunch of his for my mom.

I would think with as many domestic tomatoes have been crossed with the blue skinned that it isn't likely to find it there.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Steph S on 2022-02-24, 07:58:10 PM
I still don't understand the appeal or the point of jamming anthocyanins into a tomato that has a lovely spectrum of carotenoid pigments already.

The 'superfood' tag is a gimmick.   Taste will always trump high concentrations of nutrients.  We've already sampled some of those - high carotenoid carrots were gross to inedible (as rated by various tasters.) And therefore pointless, since good tasting carrots had plenty enough carotene already.  Unless the point was to reduce your food needs to one bite of carrot which makes you gag.  May as well go for a pill at that point.  :P
 I do like rainbow carrots but tbh the antho I've tasted were not my fave.   IDK if carotene/antho flavors don't make the best combo for my personal taste.  The white and yellow carrots are delicious.  Meanwhile,  I certainly appreciate anthos in flowers and fruit and beans and greens and grains.  So maybe it is a carotenoid conflict.

As regards the GMO issue, it means a patent and therefore ownership issues for the seed and any crossings that picked up the specially inserted gene.  Certainly the opposite of Open Source.  Not interested in that material, personally.  I am ethically opposed to patents on DNA.   And I don't see why the organic movement should accept it.   Certainly many organic farmers are attuned to seed sovereignty issues and to growing at least some of their own seed.   Since the novelty fruit has a good chance of contaminating their OP's with patented genes, you really wouldn't want it around.
And you're right about the gardeners - many will grow it for the novelty, but what will happen to our seed swaps? 
You would not even know if your received seed was crossed until a fruit ripened purple.  By that time bees have been all over the bunch, and your season's seed is possibly contaminated.   


Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-24, 08:20:14 PM
I was thinking about a four plex none of the patios are far enough apart for bee separation. If one of your neighbors in a fourplex decided to grow the new blue inside tomato and you grew something with an exserted stigma you could pick up pollen contamination. 
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: nathanp on 2022-02-24, 09:21:09 PM
Quote
I am bothered by the current lack of acceptance of GMOs by organic standards

I am extremely bothered by that thought that anything involving a GMO could or should ever be considered organic.  One of the reasons I grow food myself, and purchase almost entirely organic foods for my family is to avoid anything related to a GMO.  I have zero trust in the lack of transparency of the development, lack of oversight by regulators, and safety concerns that arise due to studies that are nearly all entirely funded by the developers. 

Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-25, 06:25:46 AM
GMO's are a complex issue. I have very little trust of the large corporations that have pushed through multiple herbicide and pesticide resistant GMO's and come up with very little else. My feeling is that this is funding source related. GMO's are doing almost nothing useful for humanity because the technology has been subsumed and controlled by corporations with no incentive to make anything with it that doesn't increase their own profits. I also think that the patenting is very problematic and not in the best interest of humanity. I would be open to publicly funded GMO's without patents.

GMO's bred for health benefits of increased nutrition like this tomato and golden rice I can sort of see. Golden rice is an interesting tale.

However I also see a nuance here. The older form of genetic engineering is like a bludgeon. You take a piece of DNA and insert it with very little control. It has the potential to mess up things up just by the clumsiness of it. Gene editing which is relatively new is much more what genetic engineering could be. It is elegant and more of a precision rewrite.

So one of my biggest beefs with this GMO tomato is it used the older technology when it is a clear candidate for the newer. Given that there are purple flesh tomatillos.

Given that the research referenced in the articles shows this GMO may actually have health benefits health concerns aren't probably going to keep this from happening. They'll probably get regulatory approval and soon and start selling this GMO tomato as the articles say.

The big question for me then is how do they plan to profit from it and control their patents especially if releasing it to home gardeners? If I couldn't save seed or breed with these legally I wouldn't even contemplate freezing some for later use. I would also be much more cautious about where I get tomato seed- seed trades might be out and small sellers might be out. Which would be extremely unfortunate.

Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-02-25, 09:50:40 AM
It seems like this tomato has over 15 years of testing or something similar.

I do agree that their editing method is dated.

The gene that they added seems to just be an anthocyanin expression gene, doubt it has a toxicity. Even if it isn't in a great placement, it shouldn't cause problems as it has been trialed.


On William's side that GMOs with health benefits are good. I would also say that increased productivity, other traits that give more health benefits, tomatoes with longer shelf life. Could lead to less food waste.

Cold hardy miracle berries would be cool.


Anyways, if seed saving / breeding is allowed, that would be cool and I wouldn't mind using them. These anthocyanin traits are typically combined with flesh color traits, but you can't see the flesh as its covered in anthocyanin / blue color.


 
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-02-25, 09:55:46 AM

I am curious as to precisely how it will be released in a legal sense. This curiosity is greater than normal because they are talking about releasing seeds to gardeners. I've never heard of a GMO released to gardeners though some may have been unintentionally like feral canola


https://www.bigpurpletomato.com/products

Seems like they will be offering plants to home gardeners.

Purple Tomato Plants
We have made seeds of purple tomatoes bred into elite varieties suitable for backyard gardens.


I would ask on their FAQs if seeds can be saved / what happens in the case of contamination.

https://www.bigpurpletomato.com/faqs
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Adrian on 2022-02-25, 10:29:59 AM
Do you think it not more  easy to cross physalis ixocarpa with solanum lycopersicum than use gmo for have blue tomato?
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-02-25, 10:35:07 AM
Do you think it not more  easy to cross physalis ixocarpa than use  with solanum lycopersicum than use gmo for have blue tomato?

A physalis - solanum cross may require embryo rescue or something more complicated. Pretty sure this tomato has more anthocyanins as well. Physalis breeding, even within the same genus is difficult.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-02-25, 04:04:12 PM
Yeah, a straight up Physalis x Solanum cross probably wouldn't work. If it could be done it would probably have been done by now.

I like how we keep trying to problem solve how to get blue fleshed tomatoes with breeding though. It might just be possible.

There is one natural solution that is easy though: Grow and breed with blue/purple fleshed tomatillos.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-03-03, 03:07:11 PM
Got a response to my email / question.


Dear Garrett, thank you for reaching out with this excellent question. Here is a first response, and I will work on an update to add to our website, as I expect many other purple tomato fans have similar questions in mind.
One of our drivers with the purple tomato is to show that it is not so different from any other tomato you grow - it has 3 genes added to make it purple, added on top of the 30,000 genes that all tomatoes have (and, of course, there is a lot of diversity in those genes and the total number, between varieties!). Therefore, the response should look similar to this question asked of any other varieties you grow (Celebrity, Early Girl, etc.).
Accidental crossing: This is low-probability, as tomatoes mostly self pollinate. It is possible, and the risk would be similar to other tomatoes you grow. It will not escape notice, because a contamination will result in purple fruit - if this happens undesired, these plants can be destroyed.
Saving, breeding, sharing: This is a strong tradition among many gardeners, and we support people growing the purple tomatoes in similar ways to any other tomato. There will be limits to this, and we will make them clear when we are able to share the seeds.
This answer depends on USDA granting regulatory approval.
Here's what to expect:
1) It will be illegal for the seeds to go outside of the US, as we anticipate approvals first in the US and not in many other countries.
2) We will stipulate that it is fine to save seeds, breed, grow fruit for home/community consumption. We encourage this, and look forward to learning of people's successes!
3) We will require acknowledgement that people who wish to develop commercial activities (selling fruit, selling seed, selling transplants, breeding new varieties for commercial purposes) contact us. Cathie Martin and her team invested so many years to develop this amazing tomato, and we want to make sure that she can continue to develop her vision for this tomato. We encourage this, and look forward to product commercial partnerships to bring purple tomatoes to our fans.
Thanks for your interest and best wishes,


Seems like breeding / seed saving may be allowed depending on how everything goes. Seems to be a few stipulations here.

I myself wouldn't mind contacting contacting them before selling seeds / breeding commercial varieties prior to doing anything. They put quite a bit of time and money into this.

This is a pretty big forum, it should be easy to notice any contamination, but I would be sure to keep these isolated from other varieties just to be on the safe side.

If you don't isolate these, make sure that you notify anyone else that you send seeds to that these were grown nearby to prevent any issues.

Even if the other person doesn't mind contamination, they could see purple genes pop up and send it to a friend overseas.


These are GMO traits, there are more legal problems than the standard stuff. Please don't try and be sneaky about this, you could get in a lot of trouble for sending unapproved GMO seeds elsewhere.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-03-13, 07:27:00 PM
https://seedworld.com/purple-tomatoes-thanks-to-red-beet-pigment/

Purple

Different GMO sounds like a research effort.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-03-13, 08:28:57 PM
That purple color seems to be betanin rather than just plain anthocyanin. It was mentioned that 7 activator traits were needed, and 3 others as well.

Would be nice to see something like this on the market.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-04-07, 03:44:32 PM
Got another email 8 days ago about the purple tomatoes - seems to have been sent to everyone who subscribed to their newsletter.


Dear Purple Tomato Enthusiasts,

First of all, thanks to the many of you who have reached out with notes of support and encouragement for our project!

We have had a lot of exciting media coverage of the purple tomato recently, and we encourage you to share our mission to develop super nutritious and tasty purple tomato varieties with your family and friends!

Wall Street Journal Video
New Scientist Article
Fast Company Article
Cornell Alliance for Science Webinar
New York Times Article

We are unfortunately still in a holding pattern on seed availability, waiting on a regulatory decision through the USDA's new framework. As a reminder, we were initially given a decision deadline of February 16th, but the USDA is apparently still finalizing their review process around the new framework and also likely slowed by Covid.
We value the regulatory process highly and believe it is worth some extra time to set the right precedents.

I apologize to those of you who were hoping to start purple tomato seeds for your garden this Spring, I know this window is closing quickly for many of you. We will share an update as soon as we have news on this front.

Wish you all healthy and happy growing,
Nathan Pumplin and the Norfolk Plant Sciences team



There is still a chance that this may not be approved. It would be a bit late to receive seeds myself, I could probably get away with starting some mid season as they have introgressed the gene into multiple varieties, some which are probably early.



Another article that I found on the tomatoes https://www.fastcompany.com/90726505/behold-the-purple-tomato-a-new-designer-super-fruit


But Martin’s research found two other interesting things. Her purple tomatoes—not to be mistaken with dark varietals like black cherry tomatoes—last roughly twice as long on the shelf as a standard tomato. And mice that ate a diet of her purple tomatoes lived 30% longer than those that ate the standard red variety. A human would need to eat the equivalent of two purple tomatoes every day to reach a similar potential benefit, yet Martin believes that’s actually more feasible than eating the alternative of two handfuls of blueberries a day. That’s because blueberries are expensive and highly seasonal, while her tomatoes could be cooked down into pasta or pizza sauce.

Seems like some nice reported studies. Longer shelf life, increased life span of mice.

But Martin has little interest in controlling any genetic or brand IP, like Monsanto or Del Monte. In fact, her company, Norfolk Plant Sciences—founded in the U.K. alongside her colleague Jonathan Jones—leans closer to Iowa’s hippy nonprofit Seed Savers Exchange than a global agriculture powerhouse. As a botanist, she first studied how to use genetics to boost the anthocyanin content in tobacco plants. The problem was that anthocyanin production worked its way into the entire plant—including the leaves and the stem—which wasted energy and stunted its growth. With her tomatoes, Martin isolated how to increase anthocyanin solely within the fruit itself, and only when the fruit was at its natural ripening state. So these tomato plants can grow under the same conditions, and with the same yield, as conventional options.

I have noticed that some of my "Antho" tomato varieties get an increase in anthocyanin all throughout the plant, which stunts it for the rest of it's life if they are exposed to any cold temperatures.


Now she imagines a surprising way forward with her tomatoes. She will give them to the market however the market wants to consume them. That means she’ll sell you the seeds to grow them yourself. She’ll allow farmers to grow them and sell them to stores to sell to you. She’ll even turn a blind eye on you cross-pollinating these purple tomatoes with another variety in your garden. Martin isn’t protective of her product; she just wants to see it grow.


We should be able to breed with these from what I am reading here. As mentioned before, don't send seeds out of the U.S. if they contain GMO traits.

It was also mentioned that these should have been approved or denied by February - now they think either by the end of March or April, it will be approved or denied.


Anti-GMO fellows probably don't want it into markets, corporation-type GMO fellows probably don't want this to pop into markets either. Other groups are working on their own purple tomatoes, a non-corporation controlled type would probably destroy the market for types that need to be re-purchased yearly and probably cost a lot more than these seeds as anyone can grow them out for seed.

So, potentially millions or billions of losses and potential gains could vanish due to this free-use GMO.


I am hoping that this tomato gets released to the public. It seems like a healthy tomato, the color shows up in canning (purple ketchup?).
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Jeremy Weiss on 2022-04-07, 04:02:47 PM

I am hoping that this tomato gets released to the public. It seems like a healthy tomato, the color shows up in canning (purple ketchup?).

Of course, a big part of it would be finding out of whether the public would ACCEPT purple tomato sauce, if indeed the sauce would be purple (the lycopene in red tomatoes (which is, I assume what she started with) tend to become more orangey as they are cooked, so the sauce might just as easily come out brown.  It's sort of the same reason I long ago gave up on making ANY heated product from green when ripe tomatoes; you heat a green, you get olive khaki.

If they DON'T, well it would be about as successful as my attempts to turn people on to my green soymilk and tofu (which was green because the soybeans were green). It didn't matter HOW tasty it was, no one wanted to drink green milk.   

Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: William S. on 2022-04-07, 04:40:14 PM
I think given my investment in open-source plant breeding with an intent towards organic plant breeding that for myself a release of this plant material will ultimately mean that I would stop trading tomato seeds entirely and only purchase them from certified organic sources if that (I have plenty of breeding material). I would also stop using my parent's apartment patio tomato garden as a breeding space and probably my backyard also and only breed tomatoes on the eight acres where I can maintain them in excess of 150 feet from anyone else's tomatoes. I might even make sure to set back all my gardens 150' from the property boundary to make sure no one would pop in a tomato plant too close.

Though in theory if this GMO were to be accepted as certified organic AND OSSI struck a deal allowing such purple tomatoes to be registered OSSI I would be fine with it. Which is quite the dichotomy. But yeah under the current organic framework these seeds would be pure poison to my hopes for my tomato breeding work. Which is sad because these researchers put a lot of work into them but it just isn't going to be accepted soon by my target community.

Also it would make growing and trading with my favorite exserted tomato varieties much more hazardous for the organic community because without separation of 150' or more such varieties cross- that is what I like about them.

Which all taken together means this GMO release has the potential to ruin tomato breeding as I've known it these last five years. I suspect in some ways that it would force us closer to organic GMO if just because we eventually will have to tolerate some level of GMO contamination because once these things are released they eventually become too ubiquitous to completely keep out of things.

This particular release is probably safe and probably beneficial even- it is more that organic doesn't allow GMO that would cause me to shun it. I don't feel the same way about the widely released glyphosate resistant alfalfa for instance. I don't think that pesticide resistant plants are necessary or beneficial to anyone but chemical companies in the long run but the trait is going to be in alfalfa long after we have run out of the resources necessary to make glyphosate. We should probably be evaluating GMOs on a individual basis not as a group.
Title: Re: GMO Blue Flesh Tomato Seeds Coming
Post by: Garrett Schantz on 2022-04-07, 08:20:31 PM
I know of a few people that I could convince to try these.

Also aware that a lot of people will see "GMO" and shun it.

Something like this could easily "contaminate" organic exserted tomatoes as well. But, the Anthocyanin shows in the fruit the following year if there is a cross. From what I have been reading, Wild Tomatoes can pollinate other groups quite far away due to bees - pretty similar to squash in that regard.

I think that the creators of this tomato want an open source tomato that people can save seed / grow themselves and breed with. Someone on the OSSI board could try emailing them - that could open those guys up into legal troubles in the future if some court starts ruling on things. I don't know if they even have any sort of protections on the Purple Tomato from what I can tell, would need to ask them.


It would be interesting to see if this turns some people towards these types of GMO. A lot of the people I know don't like GMOs because they are used to allow for the usage of toxic chemicals on plants.

Glyphosate is more than likely toxic, some suspicious back and forth emails between the FDA and a certain chemical company were found, some of which reportedly mentioned awareness that this chemical isn't entirely safe.


I could try explaining to some people all of the GMOs currently on the market to turn them over if they really feel unsafe with this.


Here are some things on the market that are GMO:

https://www.fda.gov/food/agricultural-biotechnology/gmo-crops-animal-food-and-beyond

Some of them added things to help fight off viruses or pests, not just plain old pesticide resistances.

I believe there is a GMO pink pineapple on the market as well.


I do believe that these sorts of GMO could be really nice. A bunch of nutrient dense "superfoods" could be developed

Miraculin GMO tomatoes could prove to be interesting, especially if one of the "odd" tomato flavors from wild species was tossed in. Those will probably be GMO, and they are being developed in Japan.


There isn't a requirement to label things as GMO here in the U.S. - Purple Ketchup would probably be on the news, people would probably still buy it regardless.