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General Category => Plant Breeding => Cucurbits => Topic started by: Adrian on 2020-03-18, 09:32:30 AM

Title: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-03-18, 09:32:30 AM
Hello this year i will growing tetsukabuto.
I would like to make a good croce.
I think at tetsukabuto x violina
https://www.kcb-samen.ch/graines-de-citrouille/910532/Tetsukabuto-F1
https://www.kcb-samen.ch/product.php?products_id=123150
What is your best croce with tetsukabuto.
Tetsukabuto is a male sterile?
Can i found character of maxima on my next generation?


Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2020-03-19, 10:36:49 AM
I also have a packet of tetsukabuto I got for Christmas.

I will probably plant it with either or both Lofthouse buttercup (maxima) or Autumn's Choice in the F2 (moschata). I also have some tetsukabuto descended maximoss from Joseph Lofthouse. So I might plant all four things together or I may try to separate some of them for seed crops depending on what I have at planting time (~may 15th) in terms both of new seed and prepared ground.

I don't know how much maxima you will have in the F2 but it will be 75% moschata so any recessive maxima traits will be suppressed.

I think you are correct that they are male sterile in the F1.

Joseph may have gotten some restored fertility in the F2 when he was making his Maximoss.



Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-03-19, 12:04:46 PM
I would like to found the character of futsu kurokawa on a butternut violina and if its possible  keeping some characters of maxima.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2020-03-20, 02:46:37 PM

The male sterile trait is easy to see. The male flowers shrivel up and fall off when they are still small.

The F2 segregated for normal looking male flowers.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-04-22, 05:42:58 PM
Hello this year i will growing tetsukabuto.
I would like to make a good croce.
I think at tetsukabuto x violina
https://www.kcb-samen.ch/graines-de-citrouille/910532/Tetsukabuto-F1
https://www.kcb-samen.ch/product.php?products_id=123150
What is your best croce with tetsukabuto.
Tetsukabuto is a male sterile?
Can i found character of maxima on my next generation?

Hi Adrian,

Does violino grow well for you? I have planted it in two seasons, and only gotten one fruit from it, but that fruit was good. I haven't tried crossing it with tetsukabuto from Joseph, but I could try this year. The seed he gave me, "Maximoss", fruits prolifically in my garden and does not suffer squash borer damage. However--I have not planted the offspring (F3) of the seed I saved from Maximoss plants I grew in 2018. I gave some of the seed to one person last spring, who told me he had zero germination from it, but he's an inexperienced gardener and I don't know if his results are meaningful. Haven't germ tested the seed yet.

From what I understand, you want to do a male (Tetsukabuto) x female (Violino)? I hesitate to try that because Violino sets fruit so sporadically, but it would be interesting to see the offspring.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-05-10, 12:41:45 PM
As tetsukabuto product in theory not seed when he is autofeconded , i think to make the crossbreading in the other sens and take a male flower of violina.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-05-11, 05:30:36 PM
Yes, having Violino pollen and Tetsukabuto mother plant is how I'd do it. Let us know how it works out!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-05-31, 03:52:22 PM
Here i will put all my croce breeding with tetsukabuto for this season

( justynka f1 x green hokaido) x tetsukabuto


URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/200216055129990033.jpg.html](https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/02/16/mini_200216055129990033.jpg)[/url]


Justynka fruit salmon
Green hokaisdo green fruit

Later blu of hungary x tetsukabuto
      Violino rugosa x tetsukabuto

I will create my interspecific cross maxima x moschata
I think at justynka f2 x violino rugosa or waltham. justynka f2  is very vigorous.

And ( justynka f1 x green hokkaido) x violino rugosa or waltham.
(Justynka f1 x green hokaido) is less vigorous the internode is more  court than justynka f2 and she product a lot male flower.



Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-12, 09:31:03 AM
I have a doubt. The fruit of tetsukabuto don't  fat after more of one week After my crossbreeding.
Tetsukabuto is long to fat after the fecondation?
The male has been a maxima.
(Justynka f1 x green)
I have use two male flower.
What is the consequences to put differents maled pollens on one female flower?
The male  pollen validate for start the developpement of the fruit is the most compatible or the most present in the taller quantity? or we could be have the caracter inhibited of each differents pollens males?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-06-15, 09:36:42 AM
Sometimes fruits are slow to grow. Is it withering, or just sitting there looking fresh but small?

If it's withering, it's possible you used incompatible pollen. But normally using pollen from two male flowers is good; it takes about that much pollen to fully fertilize a female flower.

Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-15, 02:26:29 PM
For the moment the fruit did not fat since more of one weeks ago.
But the peduncle lay allonged after the fecondation.
The fruit is not dry.
I will post a photo tomorrow
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-16, 06:20:03 AM
Finaly the fruit is fallen.
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/06/16/mini_200616022914211048.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/200616022914211048.jpg.html)
And he looks like eaten
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/06/16/mini_200616022914714818.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/200616022914714818.jpg.html)
He looks like to be fecondated
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/06/16/mini_200616070118343454.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/200616070118343454.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-17, 07:41:45 AM
 Tomorrow he will flowered 2 female flower of tetsukabuto and i have 1 male flower of blue of hungary wich will be flowered.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-18, 04:33:36 PM
Today two female flowers with my plant of tetsukabuto.
I have make my crossbreeding tetsukabuto with blu of hungary for the first.
And i have let the choice of the bees to chose the pollen for fecondated the second female flower.
I like the surprise!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Ferdzy on 2020-06-19, 08:47:15 AM
I don't think it is unusual for a first fruit to be aborted - the plant is aiming for "early fruit" but also "mature enough to form a fruit successfully" and the result is the first one often doesn't make it, in my experience, because really, the plant needed to be just that little bit more robust first. Hopefully there will be more and they will "do".
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-21, 04:00:41 PM
The fruit fecondated with blu of hungary begin to get fat.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-23, 12:54:05 PM
The fruit begin fat
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/06/23/mini_200623071623101157.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/200623071623101157.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-06-27, 10:55:29 AM
for my next hybrid i will try violino x blue of hungary
The male pollen of blue of hungary is very good.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2020-06-27, 10:38:05 PM
Weeded my little squash patch today. 15 or so Lofthouse buttercup, three tetsukabuto F1, and 5 of the G2 of Autumn's choice a colorful moschata but the G2 is probably crossed with Lofthouse and Mike's grex though there was a tiny bit of Rancho Marquez pollen out there. So a hybrid(s) of a hybrid to make a new hybrid!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-07-02, 05:56:07 AM
William, "little" is relative.

Wow you have a lot of space!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2020-07-02, 11:59:52 AM
Yes, but less of it is squash filled than most recent years. So it is relatively less squash. Thus a little squash garden. I should take a photo from up on the hill . Total is maybe 3/4 acre this year but I have six tomato patches 150 feet from each other this year. Only three squash patches (some in combo with tomatoes). This one, a moschata patch that isn't doing well behind it, and a pepo patch for Josephs strain of crookneck. I thought I would plant more squash but it didn't happen and I am glad because I am still working on weeding the corn at least once. The corn is ~19 rows, each about 70 feet long. Wish it was tomatoes not corn!

Edit: added photo from a bit up the hill.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-07-03, 01:22:24 AM
It's a beautiful land!
The compatibility of the pollen could play on the size of the fruit?
 
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2020-07-03, 08:26:03 AM
I think so, I tend to get good pollination on squashes. However, less pollinated seeds probably means a smaller squash. Within genetic limits for variety on squash size. However in 2017 I planted a much larger squash patch and the bulk of it was from seed from one large maxima grown in 2016. So it's possibe for me with just seed from one squash to plant a huge area!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-07-10, 11:57:16 AM
Second fruit of tetsukabuto fallen
Weight: 0,2kg 0,441lbs.
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/07/11/mini_200711011839592701.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/200711011839592701.jpg.html)
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/07/11/mini_20071101184045759.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/20071101184045759.jpg.html)
with a male pollen of maxima blu of hungary.
The pollen was validated for the fecondation, the fruit has fat  and have stopped is developpement and the pedoncle is becam yellow.
The fruit have the form of green delicious.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-07-12, 01:52:54 PM
 Tomorrow i did my crossbreeding violino rugosa x tetsukabuto.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-07-16, 02:50:18 PM
A miss of boron and potasium in the ground could did fallen the fruit fecondated?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-07-21, 02:44:53 PM
The fecodation violino rugosa x tetsukabuto is validate, the fruit gain in weight.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-08-13, 03:28:17 PM
Hi Adrian,

How's it going with the fruit set?

We're getting lots and lots of moschata fruit right now around here. Possible maximoss too but I usually can't see them amid the green leaves of the squash patch until they mature. It has been very hot, above 90F/32C every day and rarely getting below 75F/24C at night. Less rain than normal, too. The squash like it.

Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-08-14, 06:27:24 AM
 Hello Kim K,
The fruit set is good and the fruit has a good size, i don't know how the seeds will be formed and if they will be able to germinate for tetsukabuto.The first fruits are matured and the plants start again to branch out with of new fruits.
https://www.casimages.com/i/200721020356522467.jpg.html](https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/07/21/mini_200721020356522467.jpg)
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Kim K. on 2020-08-14, 08:17:19 AM
Nice, glad to hear the fruit set is good. It's always exciting to have lots of squash!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-10-27, 11:03:26 AM
What is the difference between this three fruits?
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/27/mini_201027060146410797.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/201027060146410797.jpg.html)
I will wait one month before to harvest the lasts fruits appeared mid september.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-10-28, 02:01:08 PM
I don't know if the male fertility would restaurated if i sow the seeds of each fruits.
 
The possibles male pollinating was red kury, waltham, violino rugosa and blue of hungary.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2020-10-28, 10:04:46 PM
My experience is that descendants of Tetsukabuto F1 crosses undergo normal segregation, and that male fertility is restored.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-11-05, 02:59:48 PM
The descendants of Tetsukabuto f1 are generally vigorous?
Its just for have an idea with the density of the seedling.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2020-11-08, 10:14:18 AM
Adrian,

I grew Tetsukabuto also this year with Lofthouse buttercup and the G2 descendents of Autumn's choice F1.

I've grown Joseph's Maximoss before and it produced but I think it wasn't great but then some portions of my squash patch tend to get ignored. I still have some seed I saved and I kind of let it cross freely with the Maxima grex so some genes could be floating around.

I have a lot of space though so what I will probably do is plant the remaining Maximoss seed. All or at least a great deal of the new Tetsukabuto seed. Then also will plant G3 of Autumn's choice descendants and probably some lofthouse buttercup just for eating unless I find a place to isolate the latter.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-11-08, 10:59:58 AM
 Wiliam,
If i have a crossbreeding with violino rugosa i think that he would increase the weight of the fruit and given an exceptional taste.
I don't  unfortunaly grow the buttercup but i Think its great!


Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-11-14, 10:03:11 AM
How day are required after thr fecondation of a fruit of tetsukabuto for have seed able to germinate.
60 days is low?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-11-16, 02:43:25 PM
The rugosa gene of violino rugosa is dominant or recesiv, i would like transmited this gene!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-11-21, 07:05:50 AM
Harvest of the lasts tetsukabutos but they are unfortunately take the freez at -3C 26,6F.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2020-12-27, 01:00:57 PM
For sow the seeds recuperate of the tetsukabuto fruits,Must i take of precautions compared at a conventional seed?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-06, 08:35:56 AM
I have open one fruit of tetsukabuto and i have found 30 seeds  viable in the fruit.They are tall.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Ferdzy on 2021-02-06, 08:45:59 AM
Sounds like good news!
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-06, 09:03:36 AM
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/02/06/mini_210206051051266277.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/210206051051266277.jpg.html)
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/02/06/mini_210206051051674031.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/210206051051674031.jpg.html)
Who is the parent?I am very curious.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2021-02-06, 06:35:33 PM
I've been holding off on the Tetsukabuto F1 and focusing on other squashes. So I opened two. The first even though it stored nicely was not ripe enough and had no viable seed. The second had lots of viable seeds and was much riper.

Ten more to open.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-09, 02:42:33 PM
Why a few seeds look like more flat after to have dried?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2021-02-09, 05:40:06 PM
Why a few seeds look like more flat after to have dried?

Probably not as good as the plumper seeds. You could dissect one. Or just plant. I thought I was feeling some oddity in the seeds from mine. Such as partial fill. Sometimes such a seed might germinate into a seedling with odd Cotyledons but then develop normal true leaves. Squash seeds can vary a lot in thickness and still be viable.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-12, 10:43:37 AM
I can try yo started their germination in of hot water before to put my seeds in the pot.I will use a potting soil very draining:a mix with coco peat potting soil with potting soil mychorize and cofee ground.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-15, 02:40:24 PM
i think at an experience:
for this season i will put in the same square my tree tetqukabutos hybrids.
At left,   tetsukabuto x n maxima: female allele:2/8 green delicious and 2/8 futsu kurokawa, male allele: 4/8 n maxima
at midle tetsukabuto 1/2 green delicious male allele  1/2 futsu kurokawa female allele
at right  tetsukabuto x n moschata: female allele:2/8 green delicious and 2/8 futsu kurokawa, male allele: 4/8 n moschata

The tetsukabuto will have the two alleles with maxima and moschata
Mother allele 2/8 futsu kurokawa and 2/8 green delicious
male allele    1/8 futsu kurokawa and 1/8 green delicious and 2/8 n maxima or n moschata

The hybrids tetsukabuto x n moschata or n maxima will have
female allele:1/8 futsu kurokawa and 1/8 green delicious and 2/8 n maxima or n moschata
male    allele:1/8 futsu kurokawa and 1/8 green delicious and 2/8 n maxima or n moschata
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-27, 09:31:35 AM
Second fruit opened ,i have found 13 seeds for a fruit appeard mid july and harvested  mid october.I think that the parent is maxima ( red kuri).
Its nornal that the seeds floating after to be exit of the fruit?
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: William S. on 2021-02-27, 12:48:43 PM
Yes, floating is ok.
Title: Re: Tetsukabuto croce
Post by: Adrian on 2021-02-28, 09:28:18 AM
I have try to sow a few seeds for see if they are viable.
Temperature of germination:between 15 and 30C
Potting soil:N=6 P=7 K=8 with mychorize.
Humidity:between 20 and 60%.