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General Category => Plant Breeding => Sweet Potatoes => Topic started by: reed on 2019-09-30, 09:39:04 AM

Title: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-09-30, 09:39:04 AM
I'v established a patch of Ipomoea pandurata with intention of attempting an inter-species cross with Ipomoea batatas. Turns out though that Ipomoea pandurata is pretty interesting on it's own so I thought I would give it a thread of it's own in case anyone else works with it and maybe has some experiences to share.

My research into it indicates that it is rather rare, it isn't. I'v found a number of wild specimens. It is also described as being similar in some ways to I batatas specifically in that is self-incompatible, again it isn't. But there is something weird about it. The very large plant closest to my house made lots of seed in 2016, 2017 and 2018 but none this year. All of the other plants I'v located made no seeds in previous years but two have seeds this year. Another interesting thing about the previously seedy one  is that it is way smaller this year.

Couple years ago I managed two seeds that I think were pollinated by pandurata but they did not sprout. Since the plant close by didn't bloom much this year I wasn't able to collect much pollen and I doubt my recent attempts took either.

As far as sprouting the seeds they are pretty easy, just direct sown or in the cold frame. I do think that unlike batatas they benefit from cold stratification but if you keep your seeds frozen that takes care of that anyway. Seeds planted last year (not cold) treated did not sprout but near 100% sprouted this year. Some started in cold frame transplanted easily with no losses and I couldn't  tell a difference between them and the direct sown. I don't know how long it will take a new plant to bloom but suspect it might be a long time so it may take a while till I have the two species growing conveniently close together.

My patch is out by the mail box at the end of the drive where I'm in hopes they will just go wild and grow up into the weeds and trees like the wild ones do. It's too far from the water source and since they are wild I figured they should be tough enough to fend for themselves. By appearances that is not they case, it very hot and dry there and only one has any live leaves left at all.

But another very interesting thing is I had some left overs from the cold frame that were just set out on the ground and in the pot they were started in and they apparently dried up and died weeks ago. I dumped that pot yesterday and found roots about as big around as a sharpie and if they weren't all curled up would be probably a foot or more long. They are funny looking each one starts out a little bigger just under the stem, goes down three or four inches and  forks like legs. Maybe that's why their called man roots. They were easy to peel, just scraped it off with thumb nail. Taste, raw was largely absent but with a hint of sweet. In any case I can now say I'v eaten wild sweet potatoes. The ones in the ground grew much much larger so I'm imaging they also have much larger roots, I think I will just leave them be though and maybe dig a couple next year. It's encouraging I think that the big roots are directly under the central stem so you don't have to dig a crater to find them.

I put the dormant, rather than dead roots, they each have little bud or two on top, in a shallow pit with a little water and  dry leaves on top to see if they keep over winter that way.

I'm wondering as a food crop if a person might grow them from seed, let em go for a few years, starting new ones each year too. Gonna have to get a better handle on issue of why they do or don't make seeds and why the do sometimes and sometime not. I haven't had any luck cloning them from cuttings, they are very different from batatas in that respect.

(add) O'yea the inside of the inside of the roots is snowy white and 24 hours after eating one, no ill effects.
 




 

Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: ImGrimmer on 2019-09-30, 02:16:03 PM
I noticed that wild Calystegia (a european native Ipomoea relative) is a very bad seed producer too. I visited a patch with wild Calystegia pulchra for several years in search for seeds. There were barely any to find and these have a bad germination.
When I check seed capsules of the more common white Calystegia there are often none to find.
I always wondered what that means. Interesting that pandurata has a similar behaviour.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-02, 06:35:09 PM
In my research on sweet potatoes I'v come across mention of this several times in relation to other Ipomoea species. Most talks like they are just not self compatible but based on my observations at least with pandurata that just isn't true. They make seeds sometimes and sometimes not, some environmental variable must also be involved, it seems to me.   
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-04, 04:46:38 PM
Reed,

You got seed from batatas x pandurata?  Iím getting a pandurata population ready here, in their 2nd year all 3 of mine flowered and Iím harvesting seed.  Iím going to try the roots soon.  A batatas x pandurata would be really interesting and is high on my list of wide cross attempts.  Are you gong to use batatas true seedlings to pair in the cross? You might want to cut some of the styles of the batatas once you set it up because itís tricky for the pollen to get all the way to the ovary. 

Wishing you success
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-05, 05:20:59 AM
I pollinated several batatas flowers with panurata pollen but only got those two seed which did not sprout. Not 100% sure they  were crossed cause my technique is a little sloppy and a bee might have sneaked in there too.

That's great your pandurata are flowering in their second year. If mine do that so I don't have to drive somewhere to collect pollen I'll be able to make lots more attempts and also the other way, with pandurata as mother.

I have a pretty good assortment of my own seed grown batatas that easily flower, I'll use them in my attempts. What do you mean  by cutting the style?
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-05, 09:23:25 AM
About the strange (in-)compatibility of pandurata, this what genus expert Ron Kushner had to say in a recent FB post: ďCross fertilization tends to work if the plants are from significantly different populations, although plants within the same general vicinity tend to be incompatible also for most of the time , although the cross incompatibility may change over a period of time that only the plants seem to know , hence the mysterious part of the story.Ē  Nevertheless, more genetically diverse pandurata more frequently produce more seed. For the amount of flowers my 3 plants produced, the seed harvest had been a fraction of that. 

Reed did you come across the Russian (of course they did it first) research on batatas x pandurata?  https://www.docdroid.net/AKiHsfR/101093-at-oxfordjournalsjhereda103982.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1NIfdIlxt-7hdwVFWXm6RUVys2fOqcglFqSzVb56mgZ5c4K4TOZgbT5D0

It looks like pandurata as a mother fails, and batatas x pandurata is successful at around 2%.  Not really much information about the hybrids themselves.

Cut style pollination, also called stump pollination is where you chop of the stigma and a part of the style somewhere above the ovary.  Itís just a hypothesis that it could help in Ipomoea, based on observations of pollen tube pathway irregularities and growth tube restriction of batatas. 

Also promising is the application of growth hormones to the flower stalk after pollination.  https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10681-009-9967-7?fbclid=IwAR3OK-YlV0zqPYc8VdsWhjYKFnjOSRlZjOV3ZNvk4JR7AeUgNjje403Gn7k

ďTo overcome interspecific cross-incompatible barrier, we applied 100 mg/l GA3 + 50 mg/l 6-BA to the stalk of the pollinated flowers. The treatment was conducted for seven consecutively days for good fruits and seed sets.Ē  These crosses are more genetically distant than pandurata, and despite that pollen fertility of the F1 approached 80%.

I wonít be gardening next year, but hope to set up an experiment after that.  This fall Iím going to divide one of the pandurata roots in sections and see if that works for propagation. 

Edit: I see you tried vegetative propagation already, too bad it didnít work.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-06, 06:03:47 AM
I had not seen that paper before, interesting reading. The 2% success is in line with other papers I'v seen. Have to wonder about lack of follow up on what happened after that.

I din't try root divisions of the pandurata, just cuttings. They failed to sprout roots in water, in soil, in sun, in shade. I don't know of anything easier to propagate that way than batatas.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-06, 11:54:11 AM
Which other papers talk about this cross?  I only know of one which references this one. 

Have you seen this report on the edibility of leptophylla?  Makes me want to try this one as well.

https://www.pullupyourplants.com/unusual-garden-plants/2018/2/12/bush-morning-glory

Descriptions like ďcrisp and sweetĒ are said to apply to macrorhiza which is supposed to be comparable to jicama, and can be eaten raw.  The three are closely related ó leptophylla, macrorhiza, and pandurata.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-06, 03:21:08 PM
O'goodness I have lots of papers saved but there is one of my favorites cause it talks a lot about inheritance of various traits in batatas, most of my work has been with batatas.
https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1843&context=gradschool_disstheses (https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1843&context=gradschool_disstheses)
It's rather lengthy and only mentions inter-species crosses kind of in passing. 
Quote
Almost complete failure has resulted from m o d e m attempts to hybridize Ipomoea species. Toutine (104) reported capsules formed from crosses of batatas X JL. fastiglata. _I. batatas X _I. macrohyma. and batatas X I. pandurata. No further report as to whether these capsules contained viable seed was found
I know I've seen it other places too, will do a little more digging.

I'm not at all familiar with leptophylla but after reading that paper I tracked down some seed on Etsy. May have to add it to my collection.

Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-07, 09:31:50 AM
I don't know much about such things, never tried it before but I think I might try grafting next year. Assuming my pandurata vines take off good which I expect they will I can easily try grafts in both directions and see what happens. Supposedly there is possibility of gene transfer that way so maybe if that happened it would make cross-pollination more likely. Wish I had thought of trying it this year. Actually might not be too late, I can stop and grab some pondurata stems and see if they will take on a batatas trunk. Maybe I could keep it as a house plant, not likely I suspect but could be fun to give it a try. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-07, 12:11:29 PM
Just looking up Ipomoea pandurata out of interest, says here it could be poisonous https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Ipomoea+pandurata
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-07, 04:43:01 PM
Richard, seems like I have seen that somewhere before. I only ate a small piece, maybe an inch and a half long by by 3/4 inch thick. There was no bitterness or other bad taste at all, just very mildly sweet.  Still something to look into further.

That other ipomea that Chance mentioned is described in the link he posted as also being referred to as manroot and I've always heard that in reference to pandurata. Something else to research more this winter.

In the mean time mostly just for giggles, I dug up one of the smaller  pandurata roots I'd buried and split it down the middle and inserted a shaved down stem of one of my best plants. Doubt much comes from but if the batatas stays alive for any time at all and without sprouting it's own new roots then I might be on to something.   

Introducing I frankenbatatarata.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-07, 05:24:33 PM
Richard, as I understand it the poisonous idea came because livestock donít browse the foliage.  The mature foliage has a milky sap that is very astringent.  The tuber isnít dangerous but I think if it was too mature the bitter components would cause digestive upset, but it wouldnít be palatable anyway.

Reed ó fun!  I would like to hone herbaceous grafting skills at some point.  If one of them takes, there are a couple things to keep in mind depending on your goals.  If you want to maximize the chance of sexual crossing, the idea is to graft the mother to be on the rootstock of the species that will be the pollen donor.  If you want to maximize the potential for genetic transfer from a rootstock in the seed of the scion, thatís where you use the mentor graft technique.  You basically keep a lot of foliage on the rootstock and prune all but a couple leaves at the growing tip of the scion, eventually collecting its seeds.  Ideally you want to use a scion in a state of plasticity.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-09, 06:30:52 AM
Reed — fun!  I would like to hone herbaceous grafting skills at some point.  If one of them takes, there are a couple things to keep in mind depending on your goals.  If you want to maximize the chance of sexual crossing, the idea is to graft the mother to be on the rootstock of the species that will be the pollen donor.  If you want to maximize the potential for genetic transfer from a rootstock in the seed of the scion, that’s where you use the mentor graft technique.  You basically keep a lot of foliage on the rootstock and prune all but a couple leaves at the growing tip of the scion, eventually collecting its seeds.  Ideally you want to use a scion in a state of plasticity.
Thanks for the input, couple questions;
What is mentor graft technique?
What does state of plasticity mean?

Much to my surprise the batatas stem I used has not croaked. The large leaves look pretty bad, I probably should have removed them, but the small top leaves look perfectly fine. I'v been careful not to get any water on the graft so if they are getting any water or nourishment at all it is coming from the pandurata root. I'm scared to remove those larger leaves now for fear of disturbing the graft. something other than gorilla tape might have been better to secure the connection but that is what I had on hand.

I think I'm gonna try another one only use a different technique. I got piles of discarded batatas vines with lots of little roots that have buds or growth on top. I think I'll use a drill bit or something to excavate a little hole in the top of a pandurata root. Then shave down the tip of the batatas root to fit it. I figure it will give a better connection with less exposed injury as in the split part of the one I have now. If it works I may be able to keep it alive till next spring and if it blooms pollinate with pandurata. 

Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-09, 09:17:32 AM
Here are a couple mentor graft illustrations:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/figure/Mentor-grafting-A-Non-graft-normal-plant-as-control-B-Mentor-graft-scion-leaves_fig2_270661829/amp

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Historical-and-modern-genetics-of-plant-graft-Liu/1039b16b62b0ca3eb3fb83fcd6bc12b2b5ba28fa/figure/1

Mentor grafting is basically about creating a developmental asymmetry to maximize flow into the scion.  Plasticity is most expressed in young hybrid plantsóthey might be throwing out different fruit sizes, flower colors, leaf shapes, etc.  They are most susceptible to graft induced variation.  It can also happen, to a lesser degree, when moving a plant to a different climate where it starts to have epigenetic changes and change phenotype.  Or in a genetically diverse modern landrace.

You can use super glue to secure the graft as well.  This guy does it with tomato: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fd6tBQTTAg

The hole method is called the hole insertion graft, commonly used in Curcurbita for disease resistant rootstock. There are videos of it on YouTube also.  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/hole-insertion-grafting_fig1_316511579

Approach grafting is also good for herbaceous plants since they dry out so easily.  Either way a humidity dome is pretty crucial for the healing stage of herbaceous grafts.  As well as shade for a period and then gradually increasing light. 

Look into vegetable graft healing chambers. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs1232


Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-09, 12:47:06 PM
This video has some good tips for a veggie graft healing chamber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mxy0HfgpKY
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-10, 04:23:46 AM
That's all very interesting. It had occurred to me to use glue but I was afraid of getting some of it between the graft which I figured wouldn't be good. The one video showed a little clip that looked like I might be able to make with a piece of drinking straw.

What I'm thinking now is I want to basically make a root to root graft with a chunk of batatas, perhaps containing one little bud on top of pandurata. I don't care if it grows much, just that the two heal together into one, maybe even letting it go mostly dormant over the winter. This might not be the best time of year to try such a thing but if it did work it would have all winter to become one plant and when new sprouts appeared on the batatas next spring the genetic transfer, if any should be maximized.

If the fused root is healthy enough next spring I might be able to remove any growing shoots and force new ones to sprout off the batatas. With the already known tendency of mutation in batatas who knows what might come from it. One paper I read speculated that the reason batatas does that is that unlike a potato tuber a sweet potato root does not have eyes. When it sprouts a slip it has to conjure it up from cells not generally used for that purpose in most plants. That particular paper was a little above my pay grade, when I come across it again I'll post a link.

Went out last evening and collected up some candidate batatas root and trunk sections. I figure it is important to try to match diameter as closely as possible so the respective types of tissue join each other correctly. I'll have to experiment on how to securely fasten them together. The glue method looks easy but still a little concerned about using it.

Not sure about needing the healing chamber, what I have in mind is so very different from normal vegetable plant grafts. I guess it's more like woody grafts like for fruit trees. Sweet potatoes like it hot though so if I put a plastic cover on I shouldn't need to worry too much about overheating.

 

 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-18, 11:45:27 AM
Yea the glue technique seems most ideal with seedlings, but perhaps it can work ok in somewhat larger diameter plant stems too.  If you search grafting clips on eBay you can get them pretty cheap.   

Iíll be interested to see updates on your experiments in the future.  Iím sure youíre right that batatas has more innate plasticity potential, are therefore likely more susceptible to graft induced variation that pandurata.  That said cold hardiness is a complex characteristic so if it can be transferred might take generations of grafts.  In any case, Iím sure youíll try some pollinations with pandurata pollen on these batatas graftlings relatively early on.  It would be great if it could take the interspecific seed potential up from 2%.

You might be right about not needing the healing chamber, since youíre working with plants with more lignin than veggie seedlings.  Still even a crude humidity dome might be a good idea for a short period
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-18, 04:18:14 PM
Here is a second year root I just dug.  Easier to harvest than I suspected even in poor soil.  Dug it to 8 inches on one side then pulled it. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Richard Watson on 2019-10-19, 05:15:33 PM
Interesting root, that would like growing in my soft loam soil
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-20, 02:57:01 AM
Yep they are interesting looking. Good to know that the big root sections tend to from right under the stem, so you wouldn't have to dig giant holes to find them.

I haven't got around to trying more grafts yet, probably do that today. I can hardly believe it but so far the one I did is still alive.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-20, 05:46:03 PM
Well I cooked it up tonight.  Followed the recipe online from the dewberry blog.  Three total boils with two changes of water, for close to an hour.  Then roasted for 30 minutes.  Still had a bit of the bitter/acrid principle so I didnít eat it.  I mustíve done something wrong because my root was younger than the one from the blog.  Got to fully clear the bitterness with boiling, maybe steaming would work better. 

Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-20, 05:56:21 PM
Interesting, I didn't detect any bitterness or unpleasant taste at all in the little piece I ate raw. Like I said it was mostly tasteless. Maybe variation there?
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-20, 07:39:52 PM
How old was the piece you ate raw?  There may be  a physiological change when the plant reaches flowering age.

It would be great if itís natural variation.  It has been made to taste good so maybe I didnít boil long enough. 

The related Ipomoea macrorhiza can supposedly be eaten raw and has a much more diggable shape.  Itís hardy to at least zone 6.  Leptophylla and pandurata though are hardy to 3b/4a. 



Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-21, 02:51:00 AM
Lets see, I think I started seeds in April so it was only about five months old, hadn't even been through a winter let alone get to flowering age.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-22, 09:31:09 AM
Reed, thats consistent with other reports Iíve read, the first year roots can be eaten raw so are free of ďtoxicity.Ē

Future experiments to try.  Steaming the roots to see if this can more quickly clear the bitter/acrid principle.  I cut the top off root to propagate with.  Perhaps an older root piece can generate a new root of a decent size relatively fast.  Since youíre setting it back in developmental time perhaps it would have less bitterness.  This cultural aspect is an important part of the influencing plants in the way we would like them to be, whether we call that domestication or not.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-22, 03:58:00 PM
Reed, thats consistent with other reports I’ve read, the first year roots can be eaten raw so are free of “toxicity.”

Maybe a person could establish a permanent patch for the sole purpose of harvesting seeds and plant them every year to harvest the roots like an annual. A cross between them and batatas handled like that would be interesting.  Well, I reckon a cross will be at very least interesting no matter how it turns out.

I didn't know about the toxicity issue, glad it is detectable as a taste so I don't have to worry about eating too much of it. Kind of like that awful flavor of green potato skin I reckon, one little hint of that and I spit it out.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2019-10-30, 12:47:20 PM
Reed, Iím using toxicity loosely, itís probably a purgative effect as bitter components frequently are, such as other Ipomoea.  I donít think itís toxic in a dangerous sense...thereís a paper somewhere looking at pandurata edibility and the conclusion was something to the effect of ďwe donít conclusively know if it was part of native Americans diets but it doesnít appear to be dangerousĒ

Another thing to keep in mind regarding the grafting experiments is time.  The longer you can keep the scion alive the stronger the effect will be (along with the pruning technique).  This is tricky with herbaceous plants obviously because of dieback, which is why seed collection is part of the process, unlike in fruit trees where you can leave them to be transformed until you take cuttings. Batatas I guess wonít die back if itís keep inside through the winter, perhaps a pandurata on batatas might stay vegetative and could be transformed over a longer period.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2019-10-30, 02:27:33 PM
Interesting stuff, I take most of what I read about native Americans with a grain of salt.

The batatas scion on my first attempt finally croaked. Poor technique I think. Too much tissue of both was exposed to air instead of firmly in contact with each other.

I'v got two more now, done differently. I used small pieces of batatas root instead of stem sections, no stems or leaves at all and matched them with V shaped cuts as closely and tightly as possible using medical tape to hold them together.

Batatas roots as small as these will not ordinarily keep long, they pretty quickly start getting dry and wrinkled up. So far so good as they still look fine after a couple of weeks so any moisture or nutrients have to be coming from the pandurata root. I'm just gonna leave them as is for awhile, would about be a miracle I reckon if they started to heal together but if they do they should sprout slips next spring and I can try to pollinate with pandurata.

I used batatas roots from a couple plants I believe to be non self compatible. Figure that will make it easier to know if the pandurata pollen I bring in is working. Sure hope my other pandurata blooms next year so I don't have to drive to collect pollen.

I actually reused the same pandurata root on one of them. They must be forgiving plants cause it had sprouted new feeder roots already.  Just cut it off fresh and used a V shaped edge of a cookie cutter to make the cut, reversing it on the batatas. Seems to have worked pretty good, got a nice tight fit. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2020-06-17, 05:28:42 AM
My pandurata vines are now coming up for the third season.  Iím noticing theyíre now spreading, a meter away in a couple directions.  The one I harvested appears hardly effected.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-06-17, 06:44:59 AM
Mine out at the end of the driveway along the gravel county road are doing well. Up above the weeds and growing into some wild rose bushes, very similar to the way I see them growing wild. Hoping for some flowers this year. I dug out and discarded one in the garden for fear it would take over the world. Apparently it can grow back from little bits of root left behind. 

Never got around to trying the grafting again, but suppose it's not too late. I've got some super early blooming sweet potatoes this year and plenty of the pandurata.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2020-06-17, 10:34:51 AM
They will come back from bits of roots, very strong too.  If I could make it edible it would be a resilient food source. 

My vines, even the one I harvested most of last fall, all have flower buds already.  I may pick up some local sweet potato slips and try pollination this year.  Probably Iíll  try pruning the style of batatas and putting pandurata pollen on it before going through the trouble of grafting.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2020-07-16, 04:26:41 PM
Reed are you going to try any controlled crosses of pandurata to batatas this year?  The 2 inch pandurata root i left in the soil last year has made a very vigorous vine.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-07-16, 05:01:12 PM
I don't know, no good reason not too as I have batatas and pandurata flowers both available right now. The big wild one down the road has lots of blooms. I thought it had died off but noticed just yesterday, mine that I started from it's seeds also have a few flowers.  I have just had lots of things going on and have kinda neglected the project. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2020-07-16, 06:27:20 PM
You got organza bags?  Iíll send you some if you donít.  Even if you just did something like 10 pollinations, half with pruning the style first, that could at least tell us something. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-07-17, 09:02:02 AM
All righty you shamed me into it. A complication is I'm nearly positive some of my earlier flowering batatas are self pollinating. I actually kind of like that trait but makes it harder to be sure only the pandurata pollen is in play on a particular flower. I guess I have to dissect a flower before it opens?

My research on pandurata indicated that it, like batatas is also most commonly NOT self compatible. However the two plants I have collected seed from, miles apart from each other obviously are. What is your experience, thoughts on that? 

I can try the cross in the other direction too now since I don't have to drive a couple miles and crawl through the weeds to the pandurata flowers.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Chance on 2020-07-17, 11:08:40 AM
Shame for science  ;D

We know itís probably not going to work so easily but your conditions are different from the Russian researcher 100 years ago especially I would think your batatas are probably more fertile at least more diverse.  Yea i guess you would have to prune the anthers before the batatas flower could self, could also bag a flower or two and see if itís self incompatible.  My experience with pandurata supports self incompatibility, my first seedling that flowered alone didnít set seed until the other seedling began flowering. 
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Nicollas on 2020-07-17, 12:13:22 PM
So cool !
Fingers crossed in France for your pollinations to succeed!
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-07-17, 06:39:41 PM
Last time I tried this I got 2 seeds from a batatas flower that I am somewhat confident were pollinated by pandurata. They were nicely mature and well formed but they did not sprout. All the other flowers I tried it on aborted.

I'll try a larger number of flowers this time and try to be more careful in my technique.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-09-01, 12:10:54 PM
All the earlier ones failed right away but I finally have 5 capsules developing from my (attempted) batatas x pandurata crosses. Good thing too, cause all the pandurata has about stopped blooming and I was abut to give up trying anyway.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: Richard Watson on 2020-09-03, 12:23:49 AM
Good luck with these capsules
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: reed on 2020-09-03, 05:10:16 AM
Thanks, I just hope they really are crosses. I did cover them up with tea bags to keep the bees out but all but one are on the same plant and it looks like one that is probably self compatible. And I wasted quite a lot of batatas flowers in the attempt. None of the ones in the other direction worked so I won't get many seeds at all from my pandurata plants.
Title: Re: Ipomoea pandurata, aka man root, man of the earth, wild sweet potato
Post by: S.Simonsen on 2020-09-04, 11:25:50 PM
Interesting to see I am not the only one working in this area. I can see a lot more potential in the wider Ipomoea genus than in just trying to push batatas further. I also have macrorhiza, pandurata, a couple leptophylla (bit warm here in the subtropics for them), plus cairica. We also have abrupta and costata that are native Australian edible species, with a few others like polpha escaping my grasp so far.

Crossing batatas and other species is bound to be difficult since batatas is almost always hexaploid while most wild species are diploid. You would get tetraploids with a lopsided genome that could be awkward despite being an even copy number.

If you want to get down in the weeds there is a new monograph of the genus Ipomoea (A foundation monograph of Ipomoea
(Convolvulaceae) in the New World. John R.I. Wood1,2, Pablo MuŮoz-RodrŪguez1 , Bethany R.M. Williams1, Robert W. Scotland) that is a magnum opus. It does genetic analysis that helps identify closely related species, plus focuses on identifying species with edible history and useful sized roots.

My main focus with the diploids other than diploid/diploid hybridisation is to try using oryzalin to bump up the ploidy level. My main end goal is a very hardy type that can persist and size up under marginal conditions over multiple seasons to produce large roots. I am not concerned about edibility of the whole root, instead would like to develop a form that starch can be extracted from. This gets around toxins since wet milling and starch extraction allows water soluble toxins to be washed away. Just means selecting for large starch grains for easier purification.

While I think of it- does anyone know how storable Ipomoea pollen is? For individuals doing so would make wide crosses easier, plus if there are enough of us interested we may be able to swap pollen between us if it is stable when dry at room temperature.