Open Source Plant Breeding Forum

General Category => OSSI pledged varieties => Topic started by: B. Copping on 2019-08-08, 10:18:39 AM

Title: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-08, 10:18:39 AM
And so it is, gardening friends, that I am looking for information on this variety.

I have it growing in the Seed Library’s garden; I’d like to find a descriptor list for comparison/quality control purposes.
My attempts to find this type of information on the OSSI website were futile.

Could someone kindly point me in the right direction?
TIA.
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-08, 12:32:34 PM
Its not much.  Perhaps Greg "Templeton" can shed more light.

https://osseeds.org/seeds/

Crop: Snow Pea
Latin name: Pisum sativum
Plant Breeder: Greg Muller, Useful Seeds, Bendigo, Australia
Date Pledged: 5/25/2016

Bred for Organic Systems

Joni’s Taxi is a snow pea with large, yellow, low fibre pods. This variety was derived from a cross between a purple flowered snowpea, probably Yakumo, with the yellow podded snow pea distributed in Australia as Golden Podded. In addition to the obtaining the desired pod characteristics, a happy coincidence was the emergence of long pedicels that hold the pods out from the plant to facilitate harvest.

Seed Availability
Useful Seeds
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-28, 10:10:49 AM
Thanks.

I *really* hate playing “Whack-a-Mole” on websites.
The three ‘click’ rule applies, and the search feature is not much help.

Unfortunately, the link you give above goes here:
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-28, 11:58:03 AM
Thanks.

I *really* hate playing “Whack-a-Mole” on websites.
The three ‘click’ rule applies, and the search feature is not much help.

Unfortunately, the link you give above goes here:

Yeah,  that's where the odd listing shows up underneath all that text (slowly on my computer)  and seems to be working on my phone. Though not sure if it is flash based or not.  If it is try it in a chrome browser (although chrome said they supposedly would be finally dropping flash support soon). In either case I find it be confusing and buggy (and needs something to point out that it will load at the bottom at the very least). If it flash based I recommend the website maintainer to abandon an outdated technology.

(https://osseeds.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/jonis-taxi-e1461189072627.jpg)

http://www.usefulseeds.com/product/jonis-taxi-yellow-snowpea/
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-28, 04:49:26 PM
Edit: OSSI site needs javascript enabled, but doesn’t tell you this.
Some griping and whining deleted. :)
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-28, 04:53:37 PM
And some eye-candy to offset my griping:
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-28, 05:08:40 PM
Yes,  that is a shame. To the maintainer(s) of the OSSI main website it seems the tool to lookup varieties does not work on all browsers and is slow to load on others. Worth looking into!

As for the main topic, there is this on the pea database that I started,  but alas it has no more info. Since it is a relatively new variety more photos would be helpful.

https://openwetware.org/wiki/Pea_Database_Collaboration_Project/Joni%27s_Taxi
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-28, 05:21:04 PM
Grumble, grumble...had to turn on Javascipt.
(But still no info on this variety)

Eye-candy offset for grumbling:
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-08-29, 05:12:53 AM
I have some of this variety growing, and will post pictures of flowers /pods if the darn sparrows will leave them alone long enough to flower.  Thought I had them covered but they are striped to stalks again today.
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: triffid on 2019-08-29, 09:53:12 AM
Lovely big pods! Any comments on it's culinary qualities?
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-08-29, 09:56:29 AM
Plants only 3 to 4 inches high.  First year growing them
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-31, 10:05:26 AM
Lovely big pods! Any comments on it's culinary qualities?

I don’t normally taste test from the Seed Library garden, but you provided me with an excellent opportunity for a taste evaluation. :D

I sampled two very young pods (flat pod stage, 2” max.), and two with maturing seeds.
I couldn’t locate any at what I consider the best point of maturity: seeds half to three-quarters mature.

Flat pod: tender, good flavour for pod at this stage.
Mature: crisp juicy pods that are sweet! Not stringy. (Yum!)
Over mature pod: pods are still sweet, which compensates for the peas being on the starchy side. The peas at this stage are better tasting to me than a shelling variety that has been on the vine too long. (Still yum!)

I gave some seed of this variety to another gardener in the community garden.
She likes it, and has been asking me questions about how to save seed.

(I’ve loaned her my copy of “Seed to Seed”. If that gets an enthusiastic response, the next book will be “How to Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties”)
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-31, 10:14:29 AM
I have some of this variety growing, and will post pictures of flowers /pods if the darn sparrows will leave them alone long enough to flower.  Thought I had them covered but they are striped to stalks again today.

Interesting that sparrows are a problem for you.
Thankfully that hasn’t been a problem for me. That said...

I’ve had my upper part of my plantings mowed by groundhogs twice now.

I place the top half of an old bunny/ rat cage over the planting, to protect the young plants.
Normally I open the top, and use it as additional trellis, but didn’t get to it in time this year.
Old bird cages can be useful in the garden, and they have convenient access doors. :)
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-09-01, 05:34:43 AM
Interesting that sparrows are a problem for you.
Thankfully that hasn’t been a problem for me. That said...

Sparrows have been a problem here most years I grow peas.  They got them real early then I put some cages over them and they were growing very well, then the little blighters got through the cages one day when I was not here.  Have bird netting ready to go around them.   

Shall be building a permanent netted area just for peas shortly
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 05:22:47 PM
Jon's Taxi is starting to pod up here, gave the kids one between the two of them and both liked it, so will be returning. Attached photos show pod and leaf axil colour.  Leaves are lighter than Oregon Snow, almost having a yellowish cast to them.  Flower is Purple as per next post
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 05:32:19 PM
and for a comparison,  here is another cross by Gregg M, one that he calls Heather. It is a purple podded variety,  has recovered from the sparrows quicker than JT, flowered and produced pods earlier.  Son is not as keen on this one compared to JT, daughter prefers this one.  Hard to say how much is taste and how much colour choice is influencing them, as daughter loves the colour Purple, son not so keen on it, typical child reaction for their ages.

Photos are pod, leaf axil and flower.  Foliage and stem much darker than JT.
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-22, 05:35:34 PM
A further update on the taste of JT and Heather:

JT is liked by all here and does not appear to have any fiber in it at all.  Planted around 30 seeds, lost a few to sparrow damage.  Will be aiming to plant somewhere around 100 seeds next year, maybe a few more depending upon how quickly I can get the bird free enclosure built.

Heather:  loved by Daughter, liked by myself tolerated by Mrs and not liked by son.  Has a degree of fiber in semi-mature to mature pods, which inflate fully as seeds mature.  Will be aiming to plant around the same as this year, about 40 seeds, maybe a few more.  Definitely needs more work whereas to my way of thinking JT is a marketable pea as is
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: galina on 2019-11-23, 02:18:46 AM
How does the pod of JT compare size wise?  How I wish we could actively grow peas right now.  Thank you for keeping our pea yearning during these winter days satisfied with your delightful photos whwozz
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-23, 12:03:19 PM
Hopefully the attached photos won't be to bad, shot out and took them around 8:30 pm last night.  Joni's Taxi seem to be growing to around the 120 - 130mm mark, first pod curled slightly.  Heather typically 85 to 100mm
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: gmuller on 2019-11-23, 02:17:28 PM
Hi folks sorry for the long delay in posting - rearranging my life and location over the past few months.
Much of the development work for Jonis and Heather is documented on my blog TempletonsMendelania.

The original cross was probably Yakumo with Golden Podded. I can't be too sure - the labels came off the parent snow pea. and I had a number of different snow peas growing at the time.
I grew it out to around F5 or F6, progressively selecting out the plants for bigger pods and yellow and low fibre. I still have all the parent lines somewhere in the seed fridges. In Whwoz's second pic above you can see the long slender pods that characterise this variety. I would love to get the wide pod genes in there and make a truely large yellow snow.. I did make another selection at the same time I selected out Joni's - Pixie Moon, which is a sibling variety but with longer, curved bracts - I can't remember if it has the wider pods.
I've got a few targets still to work on for this project, but was pretty chuffed to find the long pedicels holding the pods out. Most commercial varieties have really short peds, which hides the pods in the foliage - might be OK for commercial harvests, but for hand picking you need the pods easy to find. I moved to my new garden too late to sow this year, but the coming year should see more advances. I really want to improve low fibre and pod size in my purples.
If anyone has any more questions feel free to ask.

PS I'm pretty stoked to have people growing and enjoying Joni's - I thought it was an improvement over Golden Sweet, good to hear others find it so too.
Gregg
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: galina on 2019-11-24, 12:51:25 AM
Thank you both for the photos and for the history and description.  These are very lovely peas, especially JT. 

Gmuller it is possible to get the width.  But I have not quite got the length with  CEG,  But a further cross with Bijou looks promising for length too.

 I have attached a photo of Court Estate Gold and of Golden Sweet.  The pollen parent was Schweizer Riesen aka Swiss Giant.   
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: gmuller on 2019-11-24, 01:15:55 PM
Galina,
Swiss Giant has never done really well for me the few times I've grown it. Good luck with your progress.
G
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: galina on 2019-12-30, 10:12:08 AM
Thank you Greg
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2019-12-30, 07:28:11 PM
I have started to pick the seed of these two yesterday. The Joni's Taxi have the shrunken pod gene while the Heathers have blown up pods, making them easier to open.   One thing to note with the Heathers is that there are basically two strands, with the amount of anthocyanin varying. Those that have high antho in the pods also have less fibre in the pods than those with less antho in the dry pods.  Two of the different Heather pods
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: galina on 2019-12-31, 05:24:10 AM
Interesting.  So a little more selection required for Heather.

Mind you the purple genes are very fickle and can change to semi purple and even green easily.  We constantly need to select for the best purples when seed saving. 

Attached is a selection of Sugar Magnolia pods that illustrates this.  For some reason edible podded peas suffer from this purple deterioration much more than purple podded shelling peas. 
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: whwoz on 2020-01-17, 05:11:23 PM
All seed harvested of Heather now, interesting how it panned out.  Had thought I had left 4 or 5 plants for purely seed production, but turned out to be only 2, after sparrow attacks one plant had branched a lot and this one turned out to be the best - No fiber in pods and held it colour rather well as it dried, majority of pods dried with a few smaller ones still edible while picking seed so ate those, much better without the fiber compared to the ones with, these have been labelled Heather 1 and are what I will plant next growing season.  In amongst those that we were picking there was another which held its colour and like H1, was fiber free when traced forward to the tip pods for checking, these will be labelled Heather 2 and will serve as backup.  Those that lost most of there colour all had fiber in pods when traced forward to tip pods and the seed from these, labelled as Heather 3, will be sprouted and eaten as shoots.

Joni's Taxi:  The majority has been harvested with only the dregs to go.  Good number of seed collected with some of the 8 seed in a pod and one 9 seed in a pod kept separate, never thought to do this right at the start, but should have enough for our requirements from that lot of seed alone. 

All seed has been cold treated to kill any grub eggs and will be line dried for several days once the hot weather returns
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: gmuller on 2020-01-19, 04:00:56 PM
Great to see someone carrying this forward Wwhoz.
I'm a year behind. I did harvest the first of my ultra-dwarf red snows yesterday, tho.

Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2020-02-01, 01:07:36 PM
Interesting.  So a little more selection required for Heather.

Mind you the purple genes are very fickle and can change to semi purple and even green easily.  We constantly need to select for the best purples when seed saving. 

Attached is a selection of Sugar Magnolia pods that illustrates this.  For some reason edible podded peas suffer from this purple deterioration much more than purple podded shelling peas.

Are the purples fickle, or is it because there are different alleles in a population?
Been trying to get this figured out...
 
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2020-02-01, 01:50:57 PM
Are the purples fickle, or is it because there are different alleles in a population?
Been trying to get this figured out...

That's a nice spreadsheet!

When it comes to purple podded varieties i have my suspicions about why some lines wash out or are more variable than others. You need the dominant gene "A" in combination with at least one copy of each co-dominant genes "Pur" and "Pu". But i suspect that you get better pods if you get homozygous alleles for both of the co-dominant genes. My red-podded line is pretty stable for purple genes as it stand right now, pretty much no variation other than spitting out yellows occasionally. I don't think you need the "A" gene in homozygous form, but if you don't want yellows or green pods spitting back out, then you yes you do.

Anthocyanins are also temperature and environmentally affected, so it may not work as well in certain climates. Perhaps anthocyanin plants get purple well in my area because i am both at high altitude with a thinner atmosphere (so more intense sunlight), but also we have a semi-arid climate, so few clouds. But not as hot as say Texas.

All these factors combine may explain why it is so hard getting good tasting purple podded varieties, let alone red podded ones.

p.s. do you happen to have those "o<y" golden yellowish pods in your collection or just reading about them? I've noticed some people seem to have some yellow podded breeding lines that seem a darker yellow that does not fade as much, and i'm curious to know what is going on.

I will be growing out another generation of [orange-pod x gp] in hopes of a deeper yellow combination, but as of now i have not seen anything interesting. "gp" fades as the season goes, while orange-pod increases as the season goes. Theoretically it could be a nice combination.

p.s.s. ;) i'm not sure where you would put it in your spreadsheet, but when the "b" modifier gene is combined with a purple pod you get a sort of maroon red, and i suspect if combined in a red pod with gp underneath you would get a "peachy pod" which would look really cool like rebsie's original "peachy pod".

https://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2008/07/red-podded-pea-update.html
Title: Re: Pea ‘Joni’s Taxi’
Post by: B. Copping on 2020-02-01, 02:01:46 PM
I think I’ll start a new thread for this. 🙂