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General Category => Plant Breeding => Topic started by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-02, 12:56:59 AM

Title: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-02, 12:56:59 AM
Fantastic year for peas this year! With all the rain I haven't had to really irrigate at all! Today first flowers have appeared. First on some in my elbow podded yellow podded row on a plant that appears to maybe have green (snap?) Pods. Perhaps a cross from last year? It has bicolor purple flowers.

Second that I noticed has flowered is 'Early Flowering' or 'Extra Early'. Can't remember what name it had,  but it does seem to have early flowers. Seems kinda short,  but not sure if it's a dwarf or not.

I didn't plant orange pod or mighty midget this year,  but I would expect them to have flowered by today as well.

Red podded should be soon to flower based on last year i expect as it was very early to flower as well. I guess we will see.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-06-05, 02:28:49 PM
Not sure what elbow podded row means Andrew, but glad you are seeing flowers on your peas. 

Here we are into harvesting peas, but I do start early and transplant. 

A red podded sheller is looking pretty. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-06-06, 07:24:06 AM
Lovely red pod galina!

I planted a seed of 'Shiraz' with a particularly dark-purple testa. It's otherwise identical, except it has green rather than purple pods.

Cracked open a fat pod of 'Panthers' yesterday and had a taste. Delicious! The peas were large yet as sweet as apples.

I'm also intrigued by the obscure 'elbow-podded' variety.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-06, 09:34:23 PM
Purple Podded Parsley.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-06, 10:07:57 PM
Left to right: Lincoln/Homesteader and Blue Podded (Blauwschokker; Cosse violette).

I find the difference in foliage colour interesting.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-08, 03:07:25 AM
For seed increase I had started some varieties early in pots in the greenhouse. The first variety is starting to flower now.
It is called Sollerön, which is the name of an island in lake Siljan, Sweden.
Large plants and flowers, definitely needs a tall trellis.
The bumblebees love it, counted 5 at the same time working the flowers of just one planter. This variety seems to have higher risk/chance of crosspollinating than my other varieties which are not visited by insects that much.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Ferdzy on 2019-06-08, 07:31:24 AM
Wow, what beautiful flowers! I thought they were Sweet Peas (the flower) at first glance.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-08, 01:54:59 PM
Thank you! You are not the only one who thought 'Sweet peas? No wait!' :) I have parked them at work for the moment and a lot of people wonder about them.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-06-15, 08:21:44 AM
Those are beautiful blossoms, Doro! Interesting how the wings seem to splay around the keel as the flower ages.

Are the bees landing on the flower 'properly' or nectar robbing?

I've been drooling over some heritage varieties in the NordGen accessions, and wonder, is this the same variety? https://sesto.nordgen.org/sesto/index.php?scp=ngb&thm=sesto&lev=acc&rec=45658
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-15, 10:34:59 AM
They land properly and work on the flower for quite a while. It is interesting to watch them. Some seem to know how to get straight to the food and others walk around on the flower for a while trying to find the food. Sometimes two fight over the same flower.

Yes that's the Solleröärt, it should be the same variety that I'm growing. But I got it through the seedswap of the Swedish seedsavers not from NordGen. Since most of the old varieties are not quite uniform mine might be slightly different. I would not be surprised.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-16, 06:41:43 AM
Got some nice pods going this week. Seems like some of the colors are washed out, so that usually means heat is getting to them.

I will say that I really like the look of triple treat. At first I was confused because it looked like an Umbel / Crown type pea. It really does have 3 or more flowers per node. Worth investigating with more.

Got a nice yellow snap pea. Flavor was less sugary than a snap pea needs to be however. But shape and size is way better than opal creek.

A bit disappointed with the reds this year. Oh well. Could be the heat, but not sure.

Off topic,  but if anyone in Sweden knows of a good grey pea for soup I'd be interested.  I tried cooking Biskopens Graert like pinto beans, inspired by Sorens recipe on his blog, by mine did not make their own gravy. So either the wrong type or not cooked long enough. They were like hard little rocks.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: reed on 2019-06-16, 07:46:50 AM
I was just out looking at my peas. I had decided to drop them from my garden but had a bunch of seed that I just pitched out on the ground back before I planted corn and tomatoes. A lot of vines survived my planting those other crops and are producing pretty well right now. I have one with white flowers and green pods which are nicely sweet but only when quite small. One with yellow pods but they are not filling out, nothing much at all inside the pods.

One has dark purple pods and pretty purplish flowers, these are sweet and crunchy even when all the way mature. There is a couple kinds of them, one that stays purple and one that fades to mottled green/purple as they grow. That last one isn't as sweet. Happily, the most purple one is also the most prominent so even though I munch on them almost daily I'v got plenty almost ready to harvest for seed.

O'yea, one other kind which I guess is what's called hyper-tendril but they have made almost no pods at all.

Pretty sure the yummy purple ones came from Ferdsy in a trade a a few seasons ago.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Ferdzy on 2019-06-16, 09:03:31 AM
Yes, @reed that sounds like Sugar Magnolia, which I have and may very well have sent to you. Sugar Magnolia has both the hyper-tendril trait (tho not always) and the purple pods.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: reed on 2019-06-16, 09:41:52 AM
Yes, @reed that sounds like Sugar Magnolia, which I have and may very well have sent to you. Sugar Magnolia has both the hyper-tendril trait (tho not always) and the purple pods.

Humm, Hard to tell what's going on for sure, lots of plats intermingled, plus lots of tomatoes and corn plus lots of weeds due to lots of rain and not being able to tend the gardens much.  I'll have to look closer, maybe those hyper tendrils and the purple pods are are on the same plants.

I was dropping peas cause it usually gets so hot and dry they don't make anything but this year they are some of the happiest plants out there and the purple ones are sooo good. Think I'll keep them around.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-16, 11:25:39 AM
Speaking of hypertendril, has anyone tried eating them? Are they actually good or more in the category of plate decoration at fancy restaurants? I have not grown hypertendril peas yet, but was trying the tendrils of regular peas because I was curious... about the same texture as steelwool scrubbing pads lol are the actual hypertendril pea tendrils any softer?

@Andrew The only possibly suitable grey pea variety that comes to my mind right now is Pelusk från Dalarna. It's fairly low tannin for a grey pea and has perfectly round seed (high starch). Most grey peas are dimpled ones for fresh use or high tannin ones for flour making, garden peas are more commonly used for soup from dried peas.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-16, 11:33:59 AM
Speaking of hypertendril, has anyone tried eating them? Are they actually good or more in the category of plate decoration at fancy restaurants? I have not grown hypertendril peas yet, but was trying the tendrils of regular peas because I was curious... about the same texture as steelwool scrubbing pads lol are the actual hypertendril pea tendrils any softer?

@Andrew The only possibly suitable grey pea variety that comes to my mind right now is Pelusk från Dalarna. It's fairly low tannin for a grey pea and has perfectly round seed (high starch). Most grey peas are dimpled ones for fresh use or high tannin ones for flour making, garden peas are more commonly used for soup from dried peas.

Well here is the link to Soren's blog. https://toads.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/grey-peas

I have tried the hyper tendrils and they can be quite pleasant like pea shoots or bamboo shoots in a salad. But I think they need to be in sweet tasting snow or snap peas as the fiber can be unpleasant and low fiber gene s can affect the leaves and tendrils too.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-16, 03:21:30 PM
Ah, that makes a lot of sense! The tendrils of my own peas were very fibrous and not sweet at all. I'll try some proper hypertendril ones one day.

I read Sörens entry about the pea soup experiment and I read the link to the original instructions. It's interesting, ansjovis in pea soup ? that is new to me. But Denmark uses more fish than we do in our forestry area far from the sea.
The issue with old cooking instructions is that they rarely are specific about the exact ingredients. Because back then everyone knew exactly what kind of pea to use. A 'no need to state the obvious' kind of thing. This one is not different, it just says grey peas and not what type of grey peas. There used to be many more different types than we have left today. I have a feeling that the dimpled ones from the blog entry are not the type which was used originally. I am pretty sure that they used round grey peas. The deeper the dimples/wrinkles, the harder they will stay despite long cooking time.
But the majority of the old varieties that got saved from going extinct are of the dimpled kind that is sweet enough for fresh consumption. The starchy grey peas became less popular when garden peas arrived. Nowadays most people don't even grow peas for drying at all. It's all about snow peas and snap peas nowadays, shelling and drying types are getting rare.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: reed on 2019-06-17, 04:09:57 AM
I went out and sampled one of the hyper-tendril growths. Kinda like chewing on slightly pea flavored mono-filament fishing line. Probably not a good test though cause the plants are nearing maturity, they might be a lot better if harvested small. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-17, 07:42:04 AM
 ;D
Hmmm now I'm wondering about the use of mature pea tendrils as biodegradable plant based floss rofl maybe we just discovered a whole new market for them.

This morning I was in the garden and found some very young tendrils, they were much better than the old big ones I had tried. But of course not much to eat in terms of food, a whole bunch of them would be needed to be noticeable in a salad. Maybe the hypertendril ones grow quicker and are bigger while they still are soft enough to be enjoyable to eat.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Diane Whitehead on 2019-06-17, 10:24:27 AM
I just ate the non-tendrils of a purple pod parsley pea from Andrew.  What would be tendrils have been replaced by tiny leaves.  Pretty.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: ImGrimmer on 2019-06-18, 05:07:23 AM
I wonder if these young pods of gray peas are edible? Are they inedible or just less tasty than snow peas?
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-06-18, 05:35:44 AM
I'm aware of a few grey peas that are also mangetout/snow peas.

Dwarf Grey Sugar, Bijou, Carouby, Kent Blue, Golden Sweet, (Shiraz?) to name a handful. They tend to be old varieties.

Kent Blue is particularly sweet even when the peas inside are large.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-18, 06:53:57 AM
Dwarf Grey would probably be a good choice to try like that. Oddly enough I haven't tried it yet. Kind of ironic.

In other news i'm getting better pods this week of all my peas. Reds and yellows especially. Flavor and sweetness is variable for the ones crossed by me and will need selection furthur.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-18, 03:29:58 PM
Lincoln/Homesteader & Blue Podded
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-06-19, 07:32:10 AM
Well here is the link to Soren's blog. https://toads.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/grey-peas

I have tried the hyper tendrils and they can be quite pleasant like pea shoots or bamboo shoots in a salad. But I think they need to be in sweet tasting snow or snap peas as the fiber can be unpleasant and low fiber gene s can affect the leaves and tendrils too.

This is the one for eating tendrils.  They are less "tendril" and more miniature leaf.  Variety is called Parsley Pea. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Doro on 2019-06-20, 06:08:49 AM
Wow how cool is that! They really look like parsley!
At first I thought it was interplanted parsley and peas.
Those and some hypertendril ones are now on my trial list for next year. Can't grow too many peas ;) right?
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-06-20, 10:10:39 AM
I'm aware of a few grey peas that are also mangetout/snow peas.

Dwarf Grey Sugar, Bijou, Carouby, Kent Blue, Golden Sweet, (Shiraz?) to name a handful. They tend to be old varieties.

Kent Blue is particularly sweet even when the peas inside are large.

Weggiser, Schweizer Riesen aka Swiss Giant, Winterkefe are also in that category.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-06-20, 10:14:35 AM
Wow how cool is that! They really look like parsley!
At first I thought it was interplanted parsley and peas.
Those and some hypertendril ones are now on my trial list for next year. Can't grow too many peas ;) right?

Quite right Doro!  About a third of my garden is peas every year. 

By the way, if you cross ordinary tendrils with parsley pea tendrils, you get hypertendrils. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-06-20, 10:21:43 AM

In other news i'm getting better pods this week of all my peas. Reds and yellows especially. Flavor and sweetness is variable for the ones crossed by me and will need selection furthur.

I also have a red mangetout that I am happy with this year. 

Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: ImGrimmer on 2019-06-28, 12:58:50 PM
I recently received a new pea variety. So my question is: is it too late for sowing it? I am interested in multiplying seed material not in a decent harvest for table. And of course I am eager to see it.
I suspect peas to be susceptible to mildew when sown late in the season. Any advice?
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Diane Whitehead on 2019-06-28, 02:28:33 PM
I will be sowing my next batch of peas tomorrow, and will sow again in early August.

The late peas are ones bred at Oregon State University to be resistant to enation mosaic virus and powdery mildew -
Oregon Giant Sugar and Oregon Sugar Pod II.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-06-28, 04:22:54 PM
I'm also continuing to sow peas late into the season. Try the coolest part of your garden and give them a bit more care and attention than you would with earlier sowings. For seed increase they should crop adequately.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-28, 06:12:57 PM
Here's a picture of midnight snow, my best tasting purple snow pea. Bred originally by Dan Quickert of California. this is one I really want to share with a lot of people.

And here's a photo of my version of dwarf grey sugar pods.

I usually only get 1 crop of peas a year. Fall planted might work if I planted as early as possible when the others were done setting mature seed,  but I have yet to be successful at it.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-29, 10:53:06 AM
Flowers!

Andrew Barney: the DGS you sent me opened its first flower yesterday, and are almost at hip height.
They are a bit taller than ‘my’ DGS, but they have a slightly better spot in the garden.

Rogue flowers in the ‘Blue Podded’, some white with a lovely pink blush.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-29, 11:31:08 AM
I recently received a new pea variety. So my question is: is it too late for sowing it? I am interested in multiplying seed material not in a decent harvest for table. And of course I am eager to see it.
I suspect peas to be susceptible to mildew when sown late in the season. Any advice?

Your profile doesn’t give your location...

For myself, summer sown peas do less well, but still give a seed increase.
If the pods set before it gets too hot, you should be fine.
Otherwise, you’ll just get fewer seeds in each pod. :)

I noticed this spring that the seeds from DGS that I planted later than ‘normal’ in 2017, were *very* slow to absorb water when I soaked them prior to planting.
May be an isolated incident, but I had seeds of that variety from multiple years and two sources, and they were the only ones acting different.

When does mildew normally become a problem for you?

I’m still have more peas to plant this year. Some of this is due to time restrictions, and some is for isolation from other varieties.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-06-29, 12:02:26 PM
One of those times when you go YIKES in the garden...
And then realze that you are looking down the bore of an umbellatum variety, not ‘Audrey’.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-06-29, 01:40:26 PM
Pulled up Lord Leicester and some dry Fruher Heinrich vines today. Bijou and Kent Blue are also finishing up.

That Blue-podded rogue is very pretty. I'm working on pink flowered peas. Please keep us updated :)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-06-29, 01:59:07 PM
Flowers!

Andrew Barney: the DGS you sent me opened its first flower yesterday, and are almost at hip height.
They are a bit taller than ‘my’ DGS, but they have a slightly better spot in the garden.

Rogue flowers in the ‘Blue Podded’, some white with a lovely pink blush.

I noticed in my batch of dwarf grey a few yellow podded may have gotten mixed in, so if you find some yellows its just from seed mix up.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-07-01, 12:01:09 AM
I have managed two seasons in one year.  Yes with a lot of mildew, but enough for seed saving and the heavily mildewed pea seeds harvested late led to normal plants the following year.   Have a look at these ugly pods (5. Oct 14), you would not want to eat them, but fine for seed.

https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.co.uk/forum/main-forum/peas/1103-court-estate-gold-x-amish-snap
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-01, 09:22:10 AM
More rogues in the ‘Blue Podded’.
Two pods/node, purple flowers, but green pods.

The plants with white flowers with a pink blush also have green pods.
The leaf axils are purple...so I’m beginning to wonder if these plant have the am-1 gene.

The rogues are the same height, and have leaves that are the same shade of paler than “normal” leaves, so I’m inclined to think this isn’t a case where the seed vendor has mixed a bunch of pole varieties together.

But I like rogues, so I’m doin’ a happy dance at the moment.

Next: chicken wire, because the marmots have returned to the garden, and ate five ‘Lincoln’ plants (among others).
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-01, 09:39:29 AM
I have managed two seasons in one year.  Yes with a lot of mildew, but enough for seed saving and the heavily mildewed pea seeds harvested late led to normal plants the following year.   Have a look at these ugly pods (5. Oct 14), you would not want to eat them, but fine for seed.

https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.co.uk/forum/main-forum/peas/1103-court-estate-gold-x-amish-snap

You can see my ugly, small late season pods from 2018 ‘Golden Sweet’ in the top of the first photo here.
Groundhogs mowed the plants down three times, so I had to replant...
Yes, the black/grey crap on the pod exterior is from mildew.

http://opensourceplantbreeding.org/forum/index.php?topic=129.msg1365#msg1365
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: ImGrimmer on 2019-07-01, 04:55:56 PM
thanks for your answers. I am in northern Germany. Some years ago I tried to grow peas in the 2nd half of the season it gave no food only mildew. My intention then was a crop for food. For seeds I am fine with mildew. Didn`t know that doesn`t affect the seeds.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-04, 08:25:05 PM

That Blue-podded rogue is very pretty. I'm working on pink flowered peas. Please keep us updated :)

Things get weirder.
I noticed today that the “purple” in the leaf axils is actually reddish.
Now I’m wondering if b and am-1 are at work.
Of course, if there is a simpler answer...please enlighten me. :)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-07-04, 11:18:17 PM
I am afraid the "simple answer" comes next year when you grow them again and compare what you get with what you have this year.  The pale pink flower is very pretty. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-05, 09:52:49 PM
Purple vs. Red
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-07-06, 01:59:07 AM
Yes this is exactly what I get with pink flowering peas here. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-07-06, 02:14:06 AM
I am happy with the snap peas this year.  A lot of rain followed by a few hot days and they have reached large sizes and very good sweetness.  A selection here. 

On the left front a cross between Sugar Magnolia and Charlie's Gold Snap, then Magnolia Blossom and on the right Charlie's Gold Snap (Amish Snap x Court Estate Gold).  A few others both mangetout aka snow peas and shellers too in the background. 

We have been eating them fresh for a while now, but these have gone into the freezer.  I find that snaps freeze beautifully. 


 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-15, 12:18:32 PM
Yes this is exactly what I get with pink flowering peas here.

Thanks!
(First time growing pink flowered peas)

Pink Flowered plant from the “Umbellatum Mix” sent to me by Andrew Barney.
Some of the seed in this mix were showing the Marmoreus trait (brown marbled testa), so they were the ones that got planted this year.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-07-19, 08:55:35 PM
It seems that the rogue in the ‘Purple Podded’, that had the pink blushed flowers, is a case of a seed of a different variety that has gotten mixed in.

Pod type is not the same as the other plants.
I have picked this pod, and am going to plant four of the eight seeds, and let the other four dry down.

(Picture quality is not good, sorry.)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-08-03, 02:34:48 AM
A friend has a Rainbow Pea project ongoing and she tries to get tall shelling peas with interesting flower colours.  One of her crosses involved getting a dark purple flowered short pea from the genebank with the ar gene. 

She gave me a few seeds of the short ar variety and I managed to cross them to a tall marrowfat shelling pea (with white flowers and green pods) called Jeyes.  I have just shelled out the F2 seeds from this year's F1 plant and they are really surprising.

Multiple colours in some pods.  Brownish seeds both large and small.  The original ar variety has small olive green seeds.  I now have some olive seeds in a larger size than the ar variety.  And one solid purple seed. 

Predictably none are coloured like the original marrowfat sheller, but we have the size.  I will be fascinated to see if, or how, the seed colours correlate with features in the F2 generation. 


Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-08-03, 02:44:43 AM
It seems that the rogue in the ‘Purple Podded’, that had the pink blushed flowers, is a case of a seed of a different variety that has gotten mixed in.

Pod type is not the same as the other plants.
I have picked this pod, and am going to plant four of the eight seeds, and let the other four dry down.

(Picture quality is not good, sorry.)

Perfectly good enough to see the difference.  Yes it looks like that there has been some seed mixing.  Has the pink seed produced edible pods?

If it is a chance cross then you should see from the 4 seeds you have sown.  But maybe you have another pretty variety as a bonus.  How are the 4 seeds going now? 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-03, 07:53:32 AM
That's pretty cool.  I need to finish collecting dry seeds, but I got a small seed increase for all the ones I planted.

I now have these colors available:

Purple snow pod with good flavor.
Red snap-ish pod (though flavor seems poor)
Purple seeds
Orange podded.
Various yellow podded, though not selected unfortunately.
Brick red seeds (biskopens)
Biskopens hybrids with light red seeds but produce earlier. Some with gumbel umbel trait and maybe purple pods.

And now black seeded. This one is way cool!

If anyone Is interested in this material let me know.
-Andrew

I always thought it would be neat to have a yellow podded with brick red seeds, or a red podded with red seeds to match. Or purple podded with purple seeds. But alas I still don't have those combinations. I haven't had the time. And sadly i found out my purple passion hybrids were actually just a fluke sugar magnolia cross and the purple seeds were not stable like purple passion, so that cross will need to be made again.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-08-04, 01:54:45 AM
Forgive my ignorance,  what is the gumbel trait?

Black seeds, cool.  What variety is that please?
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-04, 07:59:21 AM
Forgive my ignorance,  what is the gumbel trait?

Black seeds, cool.  What variety is that please?

Typo. I meant umbel. As In umbellatum or crown.

It has no name. I had to pay to extract it from the German seed bank. It is cool!
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-08-05, 03:54:33 AM
I understand Andrew.   Crown peas. 

I wonder whether the black seeded one is the same species as our normal peas.  Interesting.  What are the pods like?

Yes there are some attractive breeding options around.  There has been so much work on "English Peas"  ie marrowfat shelling peas that flower white in the past.  But now all the 'colourful' breeding seems to be by amateurs, even though it may be wrong to include A Kapuler in that category. 

I spend most of my time with edible podded peas, especially the larger ones that in the kitchen take the place of early beans due to their size.  And I like colours for their health benefits.  Guess there might be quite a bit of anthocyanin in black seeds.  But it might also mean off flavours.   Have you tasted them yet?

 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Andrew Barney on 2019-08-05, 05:51:36 AM
I think these black seeded ones ARE the same species as domesticated English peas. The seeds are large and the pods are green (though maybe purple), can't remember completley,  though I might have some pictures.

I sent some other small pea relatives to Dianne or Brenda and they were tiny and different species. Way different.

I didn't taste them,  but you are correct,  they could have odd flavors either from the colors themselves or just from being inedible soup peas with weird flavor genes. Might need some work.

Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Diane Whitehead on 2019-08-05, 09:02:48 AM
Andrew, do you have two kinds of black seeded peas?

The "rare black-seeded" ones you sent me must have had green pods as I made no note about them. I did not eat any or open the pods until they had dried.  The dried seeds are not as large as common peas - about the same size as "orc gene" and "purple-pod parsley" seeds.

Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-05, 07:32:56 PM
Seed harvest has begun.
(Not as fantastic as Galina’s crosses, though)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-05, 07:42:32 PM
Perfectly good enough to see the difference.  Yes it looks like that there has been some seed mixing.  Has the pink seed produced edible pods?

If it is a chance cross then you should see from the 4 seeds you have sown.  But maybe you have another pretty variety as a bonus.  How are the 4 seeds going now?

I haven’t had a taste test yet.
Seed collection first. :)

The four “seeds” (*cough* plants) finally went in the ground today.
The rest of the seeds & pods are what the rogue plant produced.
It was the first plant in that patch to senescence.

So, a bit of “plant torture”, due to last week being very messed up for me.
If I am able to provide enough shade, I should be able to see the flower colours, and possibly get a taste test before the end of the gardening season.
The dry pods are like the edible podded varieties that I have. (Crumbly)

Edit: Aug. 31
Three of the four plants have survived, and one has begun blooming.
Another pink blushed flower. (Happy)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: B. Copping on 2019-08-08, 04:45:35 PM
Andrew Barney was kind enough to send me seeds of his ‘Dwarf Gray Sugar’ to compare with mine.
After chance, mishaps and groundhogs wreaking havoc on my small plantings, I still had enough plants to get a comparison. :)

Results:
Andrew’s line of this variety are taller than mine, and have rounder seeds.


Flowered at node # (pods/plant double/single) height in inches

DGS:AB
15 (4s) 48”, branched@12 18/17 (6s) 50”, 16 (5d) 51”, 13 (2s), 14 (4s), 13 (3s), 11 (2s), (9d), (3s)
Three best tallest plants: 15 (4s) 48”, b@12-18/17 (6s) 50”, 16 (5d) 51”
Edit: the lower half of (9d) is still in the garden...and flowering...

DGS: 8D,S (2015)
F@n 12, 11, 13, 11, 12, 12+, 11+, 11&12 (groundhog damaged);
Three best tallest plants: 12 (9d) 32”, 11+ 38”+ (8d), 34” 13  (5s)
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: triffid on 2019-09-30, 11:12:53 AM
Grew out enough of the following to share with anyone who is interested:

Ave Juan - 5-6ft big fat Andalusian heirloom, white flowered sheller, green wrinkled seed.
Freer's Mummy Pea - tall Victorian variety, white flowered, creamy-beige wrinkled seed. Not umbellatum type despite the name.
Kent Blue - 2-3ft grey pea, mangetout w/ some antho striping, small round very speckled seed.
Bijou - 5ft grey pea, giant mangetout, string-less, large seed average speckling.

Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 05:35:35 PM
Looking at having a go at pea breeding for the first time this year and was wondering if the flower shown is to far advanced for use as either a pod or pollen parent. Thanks for any assistance offered
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2019-11-07, 05:51:59 PM
Looking at having a go at pea breeding for the first time this year and was wondering if the flower shown is to far advanced for use as either a pod or pollen parent. Thanks for any assistance offered

That seems too far along.

An easy way to tell is to open up the keel, and if it is filled with pollen, then it's too advanced.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 06:04:51 PM
Ok, thanks
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2019-11-07, 06:23:58 PM

Uh. I read your question more carefully.

That looks too far along for a mother. Seems great as a pollen donor.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 06:55:54 PM
Ok thank you for the extra information,  much appreciated,  gives me a good reference point
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: Joseph Lofthouse on 2019-11-07, 07:27:08 PM
I was startled the first time I hand pollinated peas, and how immature the pods needed to be to avoid selfing.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-11-07, 08:15:39 PM
When you see the colour developing on a purple or pink flower it is usually too late to use as the pod mother.  For pollen I would possibly use it a little more advanced to be sure that pollen has been shed.  But just like Joseph said, when you open the flower you will see very easily whether pollen has been shed or not. 

It is easiest to work with early season flowers because they are larger. 
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 08:28:57 PM
Thank you Galina for the information,  much appreciated. Ties in with what I remember reading,  just not sure where I read it to go back to for re-reading purposes,  and have not had the time yet to do a good hunt.  Do not remember seeing photos showing buds before people have opened them up either
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: galina on 2019-11-07, 09:05:39 PM
Thank you Galina for the information,  much appreciated. Ties in with what I remember reading,  just not sure where I read it to go back to for re-reading purposes,  and have not had the time yet to do a good hunt.  Do not remember seeing photos showing buds before people have opened them up either

I learned it from Carol Deppe's book on breeding your own varieties.  But there is a lot of good information that Rebsie Fairholm has posted in her blogs. 

http://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2007/05/how-to-breed-your-own-garden-peas.html
http://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/

Hope it is not considered bad manners to refer to a post in another forum. 
http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/1804/tutorial-cross-peas

and an excellent video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq7-JGRmFBc&t=3s

Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-07, 10:49:12 PM
Thanks for the links Galina,  some I have read, some not. Carols book is one that I must track down sometime soon.
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: gmuller on 2019-11-30, 08:12:17 PM
Whwoz,
my favourite tool for pea pollination is a set of fine curved forceps, fine enough to slice through the keel - Aust entomology supplies online does some good cheap knockoffs of the exe swiss ones. model em1-827.


as the season progresses you need to get them earlier and earlier. in December I 've opened buds when they were nowhere near emerged from the bracts to catch them before pollen shed. at this stage, for my eyes at least, I need those swing down magnifying visors.
gm
Title: Re: Peas 2019
Post by: whwoz on 2019-11-30, 08:40:55 PM
Thanks for that info GM.  Not sure if I will get to crossing this year, but certainly will bulk up seed stocks a bit for next year.  Need to reduce the fiber in Heather a bit as well, more than happy with JT.